“…the important thing about persistence is, you can’t really exercise your persistence until you’ve failed. So failure is a very important part of success. Because you have to have the persistence and the determination to get back up again when you’re knocked down, or when you take three steps backward or sideways. Get back on the path again, and don’t get discouraged. But just be doggedly determined.”– Mark Erwin
This week Commander Mark Divine has a conversation with Mark Erwin, former United States ambassador and successful businessman about his book “The Powers: 12 Principles to Transform Your Life from Ordinary to Extraordinary,” and the role that discipline and positive thinking have played in his life. From a very challenging adolescence, to becoming a millionaire and then on to United States ambassador, Mark Erwin shares the key powers that have made him successful both financially and personally.
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Transcript & Shownotes
Hi, this is Mark Divine with the Unbeatable Mind podcast. Thanks very, very much for coming back and listening. I’m super-stoked to have you here. Once again I’ve been encouraged by my staff to encourage you to go rate this podcast on iTunes so that we can show up when people are searching for things that motivate them, and that have to do with the things that we talk about. So go to iTunes and look up “Unbeatable Mind” or “Mark Divine podcast” and give us five stars. Hooyah.
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So, I’m super-stoked today to be talking to Mark Erwin. I just finished reading his book called “The Powers: Twelve Principles to Transform Your Life From Ordinary to Extraordinary.” Mark’s an amazing guy. I mean, he’s had a very, very diverse life. Obviously he’s an author. He’s built some businesses. He’s a former United States ambassador. A philanthropist. Even an ordained lay minister. He’s got… I want to talk to Mark about his honorary knighthood, and the Order of the Long Leaf Pine which sounds important, but I have no idea what that is.
Mark, thanks for your time. Really stoked to have you on the show.
Mark Erwin: Thank you so much, Mark. I appreciate you having me. Been looking forward to talking to you after reviewing your website and your blogs. I’m very impressed with what you’re up to.
Mark Divine: Awesome. Thanks man. So what is that Long Leaf Pine? The Order of the Long Leaf Pine? That sounds interesting.
ME: Well, that’s the highest that can be given to a civilian in the state of North Carolina. It’s awarded by the governor of the state for service beyond the call of duty.
MD: Oh, cool. So I’m a Kentucky colonel, you ever heard of that? It sounds similar.
ME: I’m familiar with the Kentucky colonel, and it is similar. And most states have something similar to that, for people that have served their state long and well.
MD: Yeah. Well, good job. Long Leaf Pine. I love it. So let’s get into your life a little bit. What were some of the foundational values that you learned growing up and some events that helped shape who you are in your early life?
Riches to Rags[3:02]
ME: Well, Mark, I’m a little bit of an unusual story. We hear a lot of stories about going from rags to riches. But I went from riches to rags. And then back to more meaningful riches.
What happened was my grandfather was, at the turn of the last century, was very significant. He discovered and exploited oil in West Virginia. He was the first one to do that. He drilled 356 wells and 354 of them came in as gushers. So that oil must have been right on the surface. But at any rate, he was extremely wealthy.
My grandmother was his second wife, his first had passed away, and he wanted a son and heir, and he got three daughters. And one of them was my mother. But unfortunately, because of the Great Depression, and then because of just poor personal controls by my mother and her two sisters, the fortune was dissipated and by the time I was a teenager, my mother was having to work for a living at a dress shop, and she was an alcoholic and deeply depressed, and had a lot of problems. Three husbands, who were a lot of problems and so she had a very, very tough life. Very unfortunate. But as a teenager I became very disillusioned, because I’d seen our family go from riches to rags, and I became rebellious, and thought the world owed me something. Put a big old chip on my shoulder and went around with that. And I hung around with the worst possible people you could hang around with. Got in big trouble. At age sixteen I was sitting in a jail cell, waiting to be sentences for a felony that I did, in fact, commit.
And that was when the Lord came to me. I reached out to him in that jail cell. I knew of nowhere else to go but to him. I reached out to him and I sought forgiveness. I told him I was ashamed of myself, and that with his help I would make something more significant out of me if he would help me. And he came to me. And people say, “Well how did he come to you?” I don’t know. I just know he did. I knew he did at the time. And a peace came over me.
And within a week I was before the judge. And the judge said, “Did you commit this crime?” And I said, “Yes sir, I did.” And he said, “Well, the sentence will be four years until you’re twenty-one years of age.” I had just turned seventeen. Or was about to about a week later.
And he said, “Four years, until you’re twenty-one years of age. But I’m gonna give you another chance. I’m gonna allow you to, instead of doing four years in jail, do four years in the military. And I said, “Thank you, Lord” under my breath and I said, “I love the military.” And I thanked the judge and went into the air force just after my seventeenth birthday. And the Air Force was the best thing that could have happened to me, because with your background you know how important the discipline and self-discipline is that they teach.
And they also taught me that there was only one person in charge of my future, and that it was me. And my past was irrelevant. So here I am a high school dropout, no education, no money, and four years of imposed duty in the military.
So I decided… Somebody gave me two books. One was “Think and Grow Rich,” by Napoleon Hill and the other one was “The Power of Positive Thinking,” by Norman Vincent Peale. They were old, ragged versions, and I don’t even remember who gave them to me. But he said, “Read these!” So I did. And they changed my life. I started setting goals. I set a vision. And at age eighteen I said, “My vision is I want to restore my family’s wealth and position in the community.” And then I followed that with a goal. And that was that I’d be a millionaire by the time I was forty years old.
Now picture some kid that has literally no education. I was a fifth grade dropout because they booted me out for non-attendance. And when they did, the principle… the school said, “Son, you’ve got a lot of potential, but until you put it to work, we can’t help you.” Which turned out to be exactly right. So I worked my way through college both while I was in the Air Force and then after I got out of the Air Force, I continued to work my way through college. Started working on my goal. I designed my college program to focus on the things that would meet my vision and end-goal of becoming a millionaire. Decided I wanted to go into the real estate field, because that’s where my grandfather had made so much money. And so I went after it. And out of college I went to work for a major corporation. Worked for them, and saved ten to fifteen percent of my earnings, day one through my whole career with that company. And continued to work on goals and continued to work on mentors and friends, and getting advice from the right people, associating with the right people, and building my own self-discipline.
Long story short, at 37 I was a millionaire. So I achieved that goal, and have just gone on from there to do other things that were far beyond the expectations of anybody, including me.
First Goal Achieved[9:22] MD: All right. You covered 37 years there. That was pretty awesome. I just wanted to let you know, I didn’t really have time to tell you this, but my father was in the same situation as you. He… not the riches to rags necessarily, although that was part of it too. We had a family business, that we started back in 1890s that was very successful, and my father’s grandfather was driving Rolls Royces and all that kinda stuff. And then that wealth was dissipated after the Great Depression. So that’s not an uncommon story.
And also he was a rebel rouser… whatever you wanna call it. A hell raiser. And literally got thrown out of Union College. And was sitting in front of a judge, and the judge said the same thing to him, “You can go to jail, or join the army.” So he joined the army. 11th airborne. Went to Germany for a few years. Isn’t that fascinating. I wonder… that must have been a fairly common thing back in the day. For a judge to…
ME: Well it sure was an answer to my prayer.
MD: Yeah. And that experience in the Air Force… First off, why did you choose the Air Force over Army or Navy or Marine corps?
ME: Well, my father, who I didn’t really know, met one time for ten minutes. But he was in the Army Air corps in World War 2. And my stepfather who never liked me, and I never liked him, was also in the Army Air corps. And I guess that was the reason. I didn’t have any better reason than that. Better or worse.
MD: So you didn’t have a relationship with your father or your stepfather, and how did that effect your development, and some of the challenges that you faced in life?
ME: Well, it certainly gave me an inferiority complex because, I had no knowledge of my father and I was his namesake. But they had a bitter divorce and they divorced the year I was born, and he wanted nothing to do with my sister or me. My mother was still wealthy, he didn’t have to provide child support or anything of that nature. So I was just never allowed to know him.
And then my stepfather was not into children at all. He was one of these very unhappy people who just never had a lot of fun in life. And he just didn’t go for kids, and so I had no men role models growing up, so that was a… you know, looking back, that was fairly destructive. And my mother was first a socialite and then kind of a sad case of depression and alcoholism, and all of those sorts of things. So she wasn’t a role model. About the only person I had who had sanity in my life, was my sister, who’s three years older than me. And my nanny, who stayed with our family even after the money was gone. And she was a country woman from West Virginia. Full of common sense and full of compassion and empathy. She was a tremendous positive influence on me.
Reading positive thinking[12:38]
But like I say, I had no male role models. But I learned early on that you don’t get to pick your family but you sure do get to pick your friends. So I picked mentors and friends after I got in the Air Force. I picked people who could help me to be better, rather than people who I might have been able to look down upon, and feel superior to. I didn’t, I looked for people that I could look up to. And feel positive about. And that was part of that power of positive thinking.
MD: I wanted to address those. Peale’s book “Power of Positive Thinking,” and Napoleon Hill’s book “Think and Grow Rich.” You know these have been coming up again and again when I talk to people in podcasts, and in Unbeatable Mind. And they had a huge impact on me as well. And I think I read “Think and Grow Rich,” actually both those books when I was in my early twenties. Actually, no late teens. And I’ve read Napoleon Hill’s book seven or eight times since then.
ME: I still read them.
MD: Really an extraordinary book. What he taught you through his words is you can take control of your life if you take control of your mind. And if you can learn how to think well then everything else starts to fall into place. Is that right?
ME: Isn’t it amazing?
MD: Yeah. Isn’t it amazing? It seems like such a simple thing, and you wonder, why isn’t it taught in school or why isn’t it just assumed? But it’s not, you know, it really isn’t. So that’s why I think it’s really awesome that with your book “The Powers” you’re going help people understand just how powerful they are by taking control of the internal space. The inner domain is what I call it.
So after… so you hit your goal of becoming a millionaire. That was kind of an external goal. You began to operate at a much higher level. And so what was next? After 37 obviously you started to turn more toward significance than success. How did that unfold for you?
ME: Well, it was interesting. When I reached the millionaire status there’s an interesting thing that happens. Number one: you can’t tell anybody. Because that would be kind of obscene and bragging and ridiculous. So you’re really proud of what you’ve accomplished, but you have to keep it to yourself.
But more importantly the goal that I’d been carrying in my wallet, literally, for eighteen years was now complete. And so there was an empty space. And so I quickly said, “Well my new goal is that I’ll be worth at least ten million dollars by the age of 50. And that was just sort of knee jerk to having an empty spot in my goals. And I achieved that at age 46. And that’s when I started moving to trying to fulfill something more significant than just adding additional dollars to my pile.
My partner at the time, who was also a great mentor of mine, was probably worth ten times what I was worth, maybe more than that. And he was seventeen years older than me. And so as I looked at him, and admired him greatly, I said to myself, “In 17 years, I don’t want to look like that.” ‘Cause he had a single dimensional life. He was great at work. He loved work. He had nothing else in his life. It was an unfulfilled life in a lot of ways. And he wasn’t a particularly happy person. He was a pretty sour person, but a great guy. Loved him dearly. He passed away this year. So I decided I didn’t want to look like that. So the idea of adding another zero, so that’s when I did a six month soul search to try to figure out if that’s not my goal, my next vision and goal, what do I want?
And I decided that my vision was that I wanted balance in my life. And so I set as a goal that I would spend no more than a third of my time working–and I love to work. I’ve been working 90+% of the time. 16 hour days were not unusual.
I decided I was going to spend 1/3 working, 1/3rd with family and faith–which would include giving back and so on, and 1/3 playing. So I had to rearrange my whole life, and that was when my partner and I decided to split our company, split the assets. We had 60 partnerships and 6 corporations, and close to a billion dollars worth of properties. And so we took 5 years to split those things up. And i went off in pursuit of a bigger life for me, one that was more fulfilling and could meet those goals. And it was a great change in my life, with a new vision and a new set of goals, and I’ve been able to again go way further along the path of significance, since having made that change at age 46-47. That included being able to serve my country again, in a couple of roles.
Back during the Clinton administration, he became a good friend of mine. And I’m not a Democrat. I’m not a Republican either. I’m just a person who looks for the best candidate for the job. It’s sort of like saying, “I’m not a marine, I’m not a navy guy, I’m looking for whoever can do the job of taking care of our country.” Doesn’t matter what armed service he’s in, if he can do a better job, I’m for him or her.
MD: So how did you meet Mr. Clinton? Was it through some fundraising? And how did that…?
ME: No. It was way before that. I met him in the mid-eighties. I was invited to attend something called Renaissance Weekend, which was the east coast equivalent to The Bohemian out on the west coast. You’d be familiar with that out in San Diego. The Bohemian Grove, which is a gathering of highly significant people from all different fields and walks. They share the common thing of being highly successful in their given profession. Whether it was politics or business or inventions. Writing or acting or whatever. So this was a gathering of originally a hundred families. I was blessed and honored to be one of those. And then Bill Clinton and I met there, and then we played golf there together. And then we made it an annual golf outing on New Years Day for several years. Even after he was elected president, we continued our golf outings, and continued our friendship. So we’ve been friends for over 30 years now, he and his wife, and my wife and me. When he decided to run in ’89, he asked me if I would help him by introducing him to the leadership in Charlotte where I live. And I said, “Of course. I’ll be glad to do that.” I helped raise a little bit of money for him, not a lot. Once he was elected, he asked me what I wanted to do, and I said, “Well, I don’t really want to do anything except be your friend.” Well he hadn’t heard that before.But we did that for several years, but then I was convinced by one of his chiefs of staff to go on the board of OPIC which was a presidential appointment. I did that, then later they asked me if I would serve… because I had changed my life all around by then I had time to do that stuff. And so I served as an ambassador, and just had a lovely time, but we had tremendous access to the White House and all the parties and so on and so forth, so we enjoyed all the great benefits of being friends of Bill Clinton’s and Hillary. And then I served in his second term, because my partner and I had been able to sort out all of our stuff by then, so we really didn’t need to spend all of our time on that. So that’s how we became friends and we’re still friends today. I wrote a book called “An Unlikely Journey” about four… five years ago, and it’s my memoir. I’ll send you a copy. But in there he wrote the foreword to that for me. Which was a wonderful thing for him to do. And he was at our house about two weeks ago. We did a little function here at the house.
MD: So he asked you to be an ambassador to the Seychelles? It’s like a bunch of islands, right, out near Africa?
ME: Three island nations. It’s called a regional embassy and it’s three small countries instead of one bigger country. And it’s based in Mauritius, which is the most democratic, most wealthy, most well-educated nation in Africa. An incredible country, a gateway to Africa, sort of like Singapore is to the East, or Dubai is to the Middle East. So it’s a wonderful country, it was a fabulous assignment and we just had a great time.
MD: So the three… Mauritius? How do you say that? Morishus?
ME: Morishus. Mauritius, Seychelles and Comoros.
MD: Comoros, yeah. Seychelles is an island though, isn’t it? Right off the coast?
ME: They’re all three island nations.
MD: Oh, they’re all island nations. Okay.
ME: Yeah, and Seychelles is magnificent, it’s the most beautiful place I’ve ever seen on the face of the earth. And it was a Marxist/Leninist regime at the time. Mauritius is and was a fierce democracy, and very capitalistic, a lot like a real small America. And then Comoros was a military dictatorship.
MD: No kidding. All three of them…
ME: So I had my civics lesson…
MD: Yes, you did didn’t you? So with that post, of being the ambassador to these three island nations, what were the challenges and what are you most proud of from that assignment? That sounds fascinating.
ME: Well, when you are nominated or asked to become an ambassador, it takes about six months to do it. And it involves a lot of briefings, a lot of training and so on. Briefings with every agency you could think of, and some you’ve never heard of. You probably have, as a SEAL. And during that process, I received some advice from Jesse Helms who was the head of foreign relations, and my senator in North Carolina. And, as you know, a fierce Republican. But in my case he said, “I’m gonna make you go through this process so fast you won’t even know it. You will do a magnificent job. And I will support you.” And he came to my hearing and testified for me. But he said, “Mark, when you go to your post, remember this: Make a difference while your there. Make a difference, you’ll know what that means.” So I stored that away because of the way he said it.
Then I met with Doug Coe who was the head of the National Prayer Breakfast and a very dear friend of mine for many, many years. And he said, “Mark, while you’re there, do good. Jesus would want you to do good while you’re there. So you do good. You’ll know what that means.” Well, that reminded me of Jesse Helms.
And then when I went to the White House to say goodbye to the president before going out to the post, the president put his hand on my shoulder and I blubbered, and I said, “Mr. President, this is a great honor. I’m going to do my best to do my duty for you,” and so on. And he put his hand on my shoulder and he said, “Mark, have fun too.”
MD: (laughing) Do good, have fun, make an impact.
ME: And so on the plane flying down there, I turned to my wife who is asleep, ’cause it’s 22 hours down there. I turned to her and I said, “Joan I’ve got it. Here’s our mission: Make a difference, do good and have fun. And if we do that, when we come back from this posting, we will feel really good about our service.” She said, “Great Mark, now go to sleep.”
So that became my mantra, or my vision you could say, because vision is so important. That everything I did there I wanted to measure by “if I do this, will I be able to Make a difference, Do good, and have some fun too?” And we had the best time of our life there, we did a lot of good. I talk about some of that in the book that you have. Under the “Service” part. Being of service to others. But we really made a lot of difference, and we did a lot of good for a lot of people, and we know that. And so that was just the greatest experience.
Profiles in personal power[27:32]
MD: It sounds like it. That’s neat. And your book, one of the things I really liked that you did is you profile people who kind of exemplify the values or the powers that you kinda bring out. And some of those powers sound… It’s neat, ’cause when you look through the table of contents it’s like, “oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Goals, vision, knowledge, yeah I get all that.” But, you know, the way you explicate it and bring it out, and then talk about your own experience.
And then you have a profile… like “Profiles in Courage” almost. Like John Kennedy did with his book. About people who’ve really exemplified that in their life. I’d love to talk about some of those. Some of the powers that I thought were really powerful and that our listeners would find interesting were… and you already mentioned vision, the power of vision. Can you talk about that, and who you think exemplified that power really well?
ME: Well, you know the power of vision is where it all starts. Once you get the fact that you have to be in charge of yourself, then the next most important step is to understand where you want to get to. Just like when you decided you wanted to become a SEAL, you decided that you had a lot of work to do to become a SEAL, but it was your vision. And so developing that vision is critical. And I talk about in my book, how to do that. And I talk about going to your quiet place, wherever you feel most comfortable and able to speak to yourself without any interruptions, disruptions and being able to dig down in your own mind. And I talk about in my case that is under a tree in the woods at the… just the beginning of sunlight coming up.
I’m a hunter. And I’ve hunted a great deal over my career. And that’s a great place to do it, in the woods without any other distractions except nature going around you.
And start thinking, what do I want to look like? What do I want to be in ten years? Twenty years? Thirty years? Fifty years? A long time out. You just have to decide, what is the big vision for me. Some people never even think about that question: What is the big vision for me?
Vision and goals[30:06]
MD: I love this idea of developing a vision, and it reminds me of one of the things that I kinda teach people is to declutter your environment, and literally get comfortable with silence so that you can ask the right questions. The problem is that people are soo over-committed and so frantic with this life of ours in this modern world with all the technology that they don’t take the time to just sit under a tree and ask themselves the right questions.
ME: Well, I love the way you put that. Get comfortable with silence. In fact, I’ve written in the margin of my book, for the next editions I put that in there. Because that’s exactly right. Get to your quiet place. And once you get there, then dig down in your own mind and try to vision yourself out, many years into the future. Might be ten or twenty or thirty, but build that vision. And mind was rebuild my family’s wealth and reputation. Very simple statement. It’s declaratory, it’s clear, it’s measurable, and there are no excuses about it. And what I did is I wrote that out and kept it on a piece of paper for many, many years. And that was discovered when I was 18. And then I went back and developed new visions over the… as I would accomplish things like that vision, I would develop new visions, and I would do it in the same manner. The next time I developed a new vision, I was in Africa sitting at a watering hole, watching the animals come in. No gun, just me and my camera and the animals. And that’s where I found my quiet place the next time.
MD: So, in your opinion what’s the difference between the vision and your goals. You stated a goal of being being a millionaire by the time you were forty. And I can see how that ties to your vision of replacing your family’s wealth and reputation. But they’re different. They work differently, right?
ME: That’s exactly right. Goals are also concrete, clearly stated, no wiggle room in them, declarative statements, measurable and you right them down, just like you do your vision statement. But they are the stepping stones to reach that vision. ‘Cause one of the first things I had to do to rebuild the family’s wealth, was I had to get my own wealth. So that became, “Become a millionaire.” So, I didn’t say anything about rebuilding a reputation in that goal, but my actions helped to rebuild the reputation. Because I was after that goal, but I did it with clear ethics and self-discipline, and lack of interruption by emotional impulses and things of that nature.
MD: Now you talk about something that SEALs know a lot about, and that’s the power of persistence. Can you give your perspective on that power?
ME: Well the power of persistence is huge, because without that, you can’t do it. So with persistence… and all military people, if they’re successful in the military know the importance of persistence, because that was one of the things that was drilled into us, and I’m sure that’s the reason you became a SEAL. You did not give up. You never gave up. You never quit. And they try their best to make you quit. So that persistence… and the important thing about persistence is, you can’t really exercise your persistence until you’ve failed. So failure is a very important part of success. Because you have to have the persistence and the determination to get back up again when you’re knocked down, or when you take three steps backward or sideways. Get back on the path again, and don’t get discouraged. But just be doggedly determined.
Not stubborn. There’s a difference. Stubborn is pursuing things that are not necessarily positive, but you’re stubborn about it. Persistence is pursuing positive things. And being totally committed to making it happen, including sacrificing things that you have to sacrifice to get there. Like comfort, like food, like time in front of the television watching football games, you know. Those things have to go by the wayside. Like spending all the money you make, rather than putting aside a golden goose to lay golden eggs for you. You know, it’s very tempting when you’re young to keep up with the neighbors. Get the newest car. You know, get yourself a boat. Big fancy vacation so you can go brag about it at the office and so on.
We didn’t do any of that stuff. We saved and saved and saved some more. Our vacation was going to wife’s family’s home for two weeks to mooch their food. And they knew it, and they loved us doing it. But that is what we did. We sacrificed for the greater good some of the pleasures and some of the comforts that we would love to have enjoyed. But that’s persistence and sticking to your goal even when it’s harder than hard. And sticking to your vision even when it seems completely impossible. You know, if I had told a hundred people who knew me, what my vision was at 18, they would have laughed.. they would have unanimously laughed me out the door.
MD: I like how you cite Abraham Lincoln and Nelson Mandela with this power of persistence. When I think about this notion that you’ve gotta fail, both of those men experienced unbelievable failure, but they never gave up. They kept their eye on the prize.
ME: And George Washington too. His strongest suit was persistence. He lost almost every battle he fought. He was not formally educated. J.K. Rowling, the same thing. J.K. Rowling was a total failure before she became probably the wealthiest author in the history of mankind. So it is a uniform trait that other people seem to share, that have gone far beyond what most people would do to become far more than they thought that they could become.
MD: Time for one more. Kind of, the sister to perseverance or persistence is focus. Knowing what to focus on, and being able to really laser your focus in, and not get distracted. Let’s talk about that and who you thought really exemplified focus well.
ME: Well, you know, hard focus which is… that’s a term that I picked up several years ago. Hard focus is such an extreme focus that you’re able to not be distracted by anything or anyone. And Ralph Waldo Emerson said, “The successful man is the average man focused.” I love that. But I’ve got some stories in there about focus and some examples of people who were able to laser beam their focus in.
One of the greatest stories I know though, is when Tiger Woods was coming up as a golfer, his father, when he was in his backswing, would throw a set of keys down in front of his golf ball. Or he’d just block the ground behind him, or just go up behind him and whisper something in his ear. And Tiger got very upset and said, “You’re ruining my golf swing.” And he said, “You’ve got to have such focus that nothing will distract you when you’re in your golf game. And until you get that, you cannot be a champion.” And that’s exactly what Tiger Woods had. If you watched him on the golf course, he had the most extreme, hard focus of anybody. Nobody existed around him when he was out there on the golf course. Unfortunately, he lost that hard focus when he went through the troubles that he went through, and he never regained it.
MD: Interesting. Well this has been fascinating, and the book, again, is “The Powers.” That’s the title, “The Powers: Twelve principles to transform your life from ordinary to extraordinary.” Mark, it’s available on Amazon and other places like that in the bookstores? Or how do people find it?
ME: Amazon, Barnes & Noble. It’s on my website, markerwin.net. But Barnes & Noble and Amazon are the best places to get it. But now’s a good time to go get it.
Mark, it’s been great to talk to you. I’m going to send you my memoir. And I’ll look forward to hearing and seeing your blog and podcast. I wish you well with all your endeavors. You’re doing a great thing for other people. And this book is my effort at leaving a legacy to the next generations that come up. Just like Norman Vincent Peale and so many other great people.
MD: Terrific. Well I certainly appreciate that, and all that you’ve done. I honor your service, and part of me tells me you’re still getting warmed up, and there’s lots more to come. So good luck and let me know if there’s any way we can help you out. And hopefully we’ll stay in touch, and…
ME: Thanks so much, Mark. I’d like to and when I come out to San Diego, I’ll give you a call.
MD: Yeah, please do. Please come look us up, and we’ll have a cup or tea, or coffee, or go play golf or something. Which I don’t do very often, by the way. Maybe you could teach me something.
ME: Now you’re talking. I’m no good, but I love to play.
MD: Outstanding. All right folks, that’s it. So Mark Erwin, you can check out at markerwin.net and I encourage you to get his book “The Powers.” I really enjoyed it. You know, it was a very simple read and just chocked with some great, great inspiration and it’s good stuff.
And I really appreciate Mark, you for your time today.
As usual folks stay focused, train hard, make a difference and have fun.