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Unbeatable™ Podcast

Whole foods, Supplements and ATP science

By October 16, 2019 October 21st, 2019 No Comments

“The pace of life is so busy – and people are so busy – we think we should have more and more time. Everyone seems to be stressed out and have less. ” – Matt Legge

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 ATP Science(@atpscience) head scientist Matt Legge and co-founder Jeff Doidge are two Australians revolutionizing the field of supplements.  They get into gut health and it being one of the most important aspects of nutrition, how nutrients need to be bio-available so the body can actually use them and how whole food is still the best way to get the nutrients you need.  Mark and the ATP Founders get into this and more from the Spartan races at Lake Tahoe.

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Hey folks, welcome back the Unbeatable Mind podcast. My name is Mark Divine and I’m super stoked to be here in Lake Tahoe. We are at the Spartan world championships.

But I’m not gonna get any time to go observe the actual racing. Neither are you guys, I don’t think. Because we’re up here to do this podcast blitz. And that’s exactly what it is

As I’m like jonesing my coffee here. (laughing) Got in late last night. First podcast of like 7 today.

So we’re gonna have fun. Before I introduce my guests, Matt and Jeff of ATP…

Unbeatable Mind online academy check it out. It’s phenomenal, it’s our online training it’s been going on since 2012, about 10,000 people have done it. And not many people really understand until they get in it, what it is.

But it’s a whole mind training program. You guys would appreciate it, it’s a training program for integration. So in a sense it’s like a western yoga. Like it’s a complete, mental, emotional, spiritual, and physical development training program. We call it developing the five mountains physical, mental, emotional, intuitional and Kokoro heart/mind to ascend you to the highest possible stage of development or consciousness that’s accessible to us as a human being. We call it the fifth plateau world-centric warrior leader.

And it’s not like a supplement you take for the mind, like qualia, it is a very, very intense rigorous training program.

Minimum year long. Foundation course is a year. In my background as a martial artist and a yogi and navy seals, we know that transformation takes work and it’s something that needs to be done daily. And elevated to the same level of importance as eating and sleeping.

And so for those of you who are serious about transformation. And really evolving to be the best version of yourself possible. A version that you can’t even see yet. Unbeatable Mind is it. Hooyah.

So I’ve got Jeff Doige… Yeah?

Jeff: You got it.

Mark: Jeff Doige and Matt Legge.

Jeff: Yeah.

Mark: Oh my God.

Jeff: The coffee’s kicking in.

Mark: For sure. (laughing) normally, my brain is like firing on 90 cylinders. Right now I’m on about 4. So you gotta help me out. You got any of your supplements with you?

Matt: We should have brought some with us.

Mark: Yeah. So you guys are from Australia. You run a company called ATP – and it’s not the adenosine triphosphate –

Jeff: Advanced technology and pharmacology…

Mark: Pharmacology has got kind of a strange twinge to it here in the United States, cause we think of…

Jeff: Big pharma…

Mark: Yeah, big pharma and we think of the drugs that they’re giving all the vets, you know. And does it have a different connotation down in Australia?

Matt: Not necessarily. But for us it does. Pharmacology includes pharmacokinetics – which is the movement of a substance through the body – and pharmacodynamics – on how it works. So there’s a lot of medical…

Mark: Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics. So how it moves and how it works.

Matt: Yeah. So that’s very different… There’s a pharmaceutical model based around medicine that needs bioavailability to hit particular receptor sites, and force change.

And natural medicine has its own form of pharmacology…

Mark: We have the dumb this down barnie-style a little bit…

Jeff: That’s why I’m here.

Mark: (laughing) the doctor has to be moderated by this guy.

Bioavailability – I have heard that term before. Just means the accessibility or your body’s ability to use it.

So like when you go to CVS and you buy their mark one, motto, all men’s supplement. And I take one of those, and then I’m peeing like completely orange an hour later, that means it’s not very bioavailable?

Matt: No, that means it’s got out of your stomach and it’s got into your bloodstream, and then managed to get into your waterworks to be excreted.

But the pharmacodynamics means it may not actually have hit a receptor. Or had an effect in your body. If it’s the wrong form, some of them get absorbed and then go straight out…

Mark: Is there any danger in taking supplements like that?

Matt: Absolutely.

Mark: Should throw mine out…

Matt: Well, you just got to make sure you strategize properly. Like there is no one prescription that suits all. And that’s one of the challenges with creating a protocol for someone, is some people need different things.

And if you take too much of the wrong thing it can actually interfere with different pathways. And actually block up pathways.

Or overburden…. There’s a very interesting paper called “The Vitamin Paradox” that people can find online.

It’s a very good one, because it talks about the problem that we’ve had with fortified foods, with synthetic vitamins, and how that can actually block conversion pathways. And in some cases do more harm than good.

Mark: I was reading the other day that there is actually – maybe more than one – but at least one study that indicates that overuse of supplements can reduce longevity…

Jeff: Yes absolutely. Which is insane right? And this is the thing from us as well too – from a company that actually makes supplements – is that we actually believe in and matt being a naturopath – that Mother Nature knows best.

But the thing is that our foods changed…

Mark: We’re cut off from Mother Nature, let’s be frank. That’s the big problem. Cause I think the three of us would agree that the best supplement is to go eat real food.

Matt: Absolutely.

Mark: And to live as close to the earth as possible.

Jeff: Absolutely. Eat fresh, eat local, eat organic.

Mark: And you won’t need supplements. But we live in high-rises and we run around in cities…

Matt: And our food has changed. So if we have a look over the last 50 years when they started… Originally what they did is they started analyzing food and finding the vitamins had been depleted due to poor farming techniques, soil depletion, poor preservation…

Mark: Fertilizer?

Matt: Sometimes. It can destroy the microbiome of the soil. So we’re learning all this stuff about the microbiome of the gut, but there’s also that that lives within the dirt, that’s extremely important for farming. And creates nutrients that put into the plants.

And certain pesticides and that sort of stuff can deplete that, and damage that ecosystem within the soil. And then we end up with no nutrients in our plants.

So what they miss…

Mark: And this has really been only going out for like the industrial age, right?

Matt: Yeah.

Mark: All of humanity was pretty much okay, until men got involved, thinking they’re smarter than Mother Nature.

Matt: And everyone’s talking now about genetic defects and polymorphisms and stuff… That’s a big form of medicine. It’s just another genetic defect.

But they’re not defects. We’ve all inherited genes. Now for example there’s a lot of genes that helped people survive in the past, that may have preserved stress chemicals, may have preserved other hormones – like estrogen.

And today, they’re not as useful, because we don’t have that same life-threatening stress… And they can contribute to anxieties, and other problems. So they’re looked at as a defect and they looked as a new thing.

But they have always been there. Like a classic example… There’s one called MTHFR – that’s the abbreviation – a gene defect in that. And everyone thinks it’s a really bad thing, because it causes… Can contribute to anxiety, and it can also can contribute to hormonal problems.

However – the people that have it actually are likely to get 10% more strength from their training. It actually is a survival gene. And so if you think about it, it preserves adrenaline, noradrenaline – which is epinephrine, norepinephrine for the US listeners…

Mark: The fight or flight stuff that you’re going to need if you’re going to…

Matt: Exactly. They look at it as a weakness, because it contributes to anxiety. But anxiety is a survival technique. And so this sort of genetic defects they call – they’re not defects. And the only problem is, is now that we’re relying on synthetic vitamins. If we don’t have those proper enzymes to convert them, then we can actually have problems.

When we rely on food, then you don’t have that problem… For example, there are so many different forms of vitamins in foods. When they pick one, make it synthetically, and test it like they did with the vitamin a and e that you’re referring to, that reduces longevity. Because that’s not natural.

Mark: Man, you’re scaring me.

Jeff: Well the funny thing is – and really quickly – but most vitamins are made – and people don’t know this – they’re made… The base that they’re made from is petrochemicals or Ventolin formaldehyde which is feed to genetically modified bacteria in the lab that include that excretes the vitamin. But it is so far away from nature.

But yet I guarantee you that that 90% of people that are using vitamins…

Mark: No wonder I feel so horrible today.

Jeff: We need to give you our multi-

Matt: Yeah, we found a farm…

Mark: I had some stress, what did you call it? “Stress juice?” I had some last night. It’s called IPA.

Stuff’s pretty good. That’s been around for centuries.

Matt: Absolutely.

Mark: So keep the IPA, get rid of the synthetic…

Matt: Yeah don’t use synthetics… So cause they went and worked out that we had no vitamins in our food, because of poor farming – when our company went to make a supplement, what we did we went on a found farms that actually farm properly.

And surprisingly, when you get the foods from farms that actually farm properly, they’re full of vitamins.

Growing Your Own Food


Mark: This is so timely for me. I’m reading a series of books called “The Ringing Cedars” series. It’s fascinating. It’s about this woman named Anastasia.

You guys got to read this. It’s really wild. Most of the books have been sold in Russia, but it’s about a woman who was born in taiga forest – which is Siberia – and apparently the cedars there are just extraordinary.

And she’s like it an advanced soul – she got found by this guy – but she’s extraordinary and she basically told him “you’re gonna write a book. I’m not coming out of the forest.” she’s never been out of the forest. And they had a child together who’s never been out of the forest. They don’t have a home or a house or a structure. They just live off the land in the land. The animals take care of them, they bring them food and nuts and berries.

It’s incredible. But anyways, she was telling this guy… She goes… She lays it out in the book, she goes “if you grow your own food and if you treat that food with love…” it’s like if you walk on the ground, the ground is a living organism it will absorb your genetic imprint through your sweat, through your excretions, through your hands.

And it’ll absorb your kind of spiritual energy through the love that you give it. And when you eat that food, it becomes personalized so that that food will prevent any disease from happening.

And in the old days, people never got the diseases that we have today. And there is actually one township or little region in Pakistan that does this, and the people routinely live to their low 100’s and they have kids in their 90’s…

Jeff: They’re blue zones.

Mark: Well, they’re blue zones, but not all blue zones farm the way she’s talking about. A lot of them fish and just, you know…

But the ones that farm this way, also have no illness. Because their food is the ultimate personalized food. You grow it.

And what a glorious vision for the future. And then she has been supporting – and this goes into the metaphysical aspect – through her mental work all the Dachau’s – all the small family plots in Russia which came out after the perestroika. 90% of all food produced in Russia right now is now produced on family plots by the hands of the owners.

Like 90%. Talk about resiliency. That should be everybody…

Matt: We need to eat local, and we need to start eat seasonal.

Mark: Sorry to go off on that tangent.

Jeff: No. It’s all inter-related.

Matt: My wife and I have got two sons, and we do a lot of our own gardening. And we actually spit on the seed.

Mark: That’s what she says. You put the seeds in your mouth.

Matt: So our whole family does it. And then we hope that whatever grows from that is gonna be designed specifically for us. I don’t know where we heard that – we all just started doing that.

Mark: She talks about that in this book. It’s phenomenal.

Jeff: But you can see how far away the industrial world’s got from that now. I mean, we’ve got mass farming, we’re not letting the ground lay fallow anymore. There’s no rotation of crops…

Mark: It’s almost like a weapon of mass destruction, you know? You’re literally destroying humanity’s health.

Jeff: I think – I mean again I’m a bit of a conspiracy theorist – so I look at it and say “well, okay, this is for convenience, but it’s actually non-nutritive food, really.” who benefits from that? If you’re getting sick and diseased?

Mark: The medical…

Matt: Exactly.

Mark: And they all own each other. And then the banks own all them, and then the banks own the politicians… So there you go, there’s your conspiracy theory. Global elite.

Jeff: Pretty easy to follow the money.

Mark: Yeah, fascinating.

And so you guys are trying to break through all that nonsense and to bring… So you have to have a strong dose of education, because still food is the main thing.

Matt: Yeah, of course.

Mark: And I know your supplements are food, but still they’re only you know there are little bits and pieces of the puzzle.

Matt: Yes.

Mark: You need the whole puzzle to come together for the system to work optimally. How do you figure that out?

Matt: Well it’s hard to explain. That’s where we believe the education and that sort of holistic approach comes in a lot. We talk a lot about that mental state as well.

You can’t force change with supplementation if you have other aspects your life pulling you out of balance.

So you’ve got to really have a holistic approach. Supplements only are replacing what the diet can’t do. So with a lot of our supplementation – the nutrient stuff is just basically find quality nutrients made from plants – and then we just measure them and standardize them. Know what level of vitamins are in them. So that way we can just dose it properly for you.

And you don’t need mega-doses. Just little bits to make sure you’re covering the basics of all the different forms – not just a high dose of one synthetic form – that’s when you get into the problems.

Herbs are a little bit different. Herbs work… Again, we look at a holistic approach… If you have a look, we’ve got a product that contains… It’s like an anti-anxiety product, but in it there’s no chemical straitjackets. Meaning there’s no herbal sedatives, there’s no mood altering stuff…

Most of them work by reducing inflammation, reducing oxidative stress, helping the liver to respond to pollution and exposure, because all of those things are stressors. I mean, the definition of a stress on your body is anything that makes it change.

Mark: Anything that takes it out of balance.

Matt: Yes. If we can remove some of that all of a sudden we start taking that burden, all of a sudden we start taking that burden off the stress nervous system. You don’t need to be doped out.

Mark: What about gut health?

Matt: Gut health is the most important thing. Absolutely everything goes through it.

Mark: Hippocrates said that gut health was the root of full

Jeff: All health begins in the gut. You’re right. And the other one which I like is “let food be a medicine, medicine be your food.” it’s the two things that we probably quote more than anything else.

Mark: I mean that guy was thousands of years…

Matt: Founder of modern medicine…

So an interesting thing with our gut and in the last decade we’ve got to learn so much about the microbiome. The thing that we thought in the past was that we needed more and more of these probiotics.

What you gotta understand is we actually already have… There’s 10 times as many microbes living in our gut as there are cells in your whole body. We’re just vectors of transfer.

Mark: Yeah. Over 90% of all the genes in your body are the microbes.

Matt: Yeah, yeah. And our genes might take a hundred thousand years to change through evolutions or whatever. But the microbiome… That can change in a day. So your genetic material and your ability…

Mark: Yeah, every time you travel to a new country – boom…

Matt: Speaking of travel, you can get jet lag from travel or you can… They did some studies on rats, where they jet-lagged the rats. And then they took the microbiome out of the jet-lagged rat and put it into another rat and gave it jetlag. How crazy is that?

So there’s even microbiome fitness. When we were talking about this morning you were doing the burpees.

Mark: I’m still kind of wrapping my head around how do you take out the microbiome of a rat, and put it in another rat? What the hell do you do?

Jeff: Usually its poop.

Mark: You put the poop in…? Oh my god.

Matt: Yeah, fecal transplant. And that sort of stuff.

Mark: Rat is just pissed that he got poop, and then he felt…

Jeff: (laughing) Pretty lousy cause he had someone else’s poop in there

Mark: (laughing) And they called it jet-lag.

Matt: (laughing) Just got annoyed. He goes “yeah, all right. Whatever you want me to say, I’ll say. Just no more poop.”

Mark: (laughing) “I’ve got jet-lag okay? Just don’t do that to me again.”

Matt: But the problem is, most people actually have too many bugs. Because we don’t eat with the seasons, we don’t change… You know, imagine eating with the season. You have the fruit season – you’d eat a certain fruit for a while and then it disappears.

Mark: You got your wine season.

Matt: Yeah, exactly. And in between you’ve got different foods. And they change. But that’s a really important part of the gut, because if we feed the same foods – we can have a balanced diet, but not a varied diet. You know, we can eat the same foods every day that work for us, but if you do that then you’re actually building up an imbalanced microbiome. You’re lacking diversity.

And you’re getting too many bugs. And they can become a stress. They create inflammation…

Mark: For sure. I’ve been there. Interesting…

Matt: No it is. It’s fascinating.

Mark: It’s hard… Like when I grew up in upstate New York that reminded me of what I was reading in “The Ringing Cedar,” you know about these… I think that they’re called Dachaus or something like that… The home plots of land.

Because my mom had a garden with a friend and she would go up there almost every day to work the garden. And we ate all that food. And we were like super-healthy.

And then when they started making TV dinners she thought “well, I can save some time.” so she started buying TV dinners… You remember those? You have those down there in Australia?

Jeff: Yeah. Microwave dinners.

Mark: You throw it in the microwave, and it’s so exciting for a kid. But it’s just total crap.

Jeff: And you know what happens to food in the microwave, right? Especially if you put plastic into it. You’re just charging it full of photo-estrogens as well and xenoestrogens which then the body has to deal with. And also the degradation…

We actually did a podcast on what happens to your food when you microwave it. It doesn’t just kill it. It denatures it. It’s one of the worst things that you can possibly do is using a microwave.

Mark: All right. Getting rid of my microwave too.

Jeff: Yeah. I mean, and do you know what the thing is though. I appreciate it, because the problem is that the pace of life is so busy, and people are so busy – we think we should have more and more time, we’ve got the car now… Everyone seems to be stressed out and we’ve got less.

Mark: The more convenience we have, the less time we have.

Jeff: Seems to be that way, right? I mean how is this such an oxymoron, but that’s the way seems to be going.

Mark: (laughing) Because we’re morons. That’s not the oxy-one, we’re just morons.

Jeff: (laughing) But yeah, coming back to it though. I mean, in terms of what we believe around supplementation and we understand that we live in the modern world.

I mean, even as we sit here we’ve been bombarded by radio frequencies. There’s all sorts of electromagnetic fields that we never had – our ancestors never had…

And so what we’ve created… We went back to nature and we found the subtle and the powerful tools to be able to help people to come back into that point of balance. A better philosophy, in terms what we believe, is first educate, first go back and sort out your food. You know, clean drinking water as well too, really important as well too. State of mind, all those things are really important.

But when you’ve got an acute stress as well too, and/or something that’s chronic, that’s where the education comes in. But that’s sometimes where you need tools. I mean they had herbal medicine men and that way back when. When things were out of balance, right?

That’s where we see supplementation as playing a role.

Mark: So do you see it just as getting back into balance, and then you don’t need the supplement anymore?

Jeff: Yes.

Matt: Certain things. If we’ve got the nutrients… If the nutrients are in your food and that sort of stuff and we need to spike them up. Or if we just can’t have access them, then sometimes you need to maintain those. Things that we mentioned before with a vitamin depletion in our food – the other thing that’s been depleted of these things called polyphenols, which they give that fragrance, the smell, the color.

But they usually live in the skin, and they actually protect the sugar from the food from the bugs in the environment…

Mark: So like the skin on the grape is where the polyphenols are.

Matt: Exactly. So you’ll notice now you can go to the organic section still and buy seedless grapes with thin skins. The foods changed so much over the years that we’ve lost that astringency, that bitterness…

But also it only takes eight days in storage to lose 80% of the polyphenols. So when you’re eating locally and when you’re eating in season, you can get stuff fresh which means you can get those nice polyphenols and everything’s still in there.

Because if the polyphenols are gone, and they’re not in your food, the sugar remains – the fiber may not be there. That’s how we get an overgrowth of gut microbiome. And that overgrowth of gut microbiome contributes to stress and inflammation.

So the other thing is if you’re not eating local and you’re not eating in season then you can actually add some of those polyphenols back into your diet as a maintenance program.

The rest of the time, is if you’ve got a hormonal problem, or an inflammatory problem… Or you’ve got an actual major deficiency or something like that then you temporarily treat it you bring it back into line, but then if you have really good nutrition, really good lifestyle then you should be able to stay healthy.

Mark: Right. How close are we to having the device that can prick our blood and be like “okay, Mark, you need to eat a little bit more… Some tomatoes and some avocados today, and you need to take this ATP supplement.”

Matt: Yeah, we’re not too far off in the sense that from what we know. The problem is so many assumptions. So based on what we know now… You have a look at ten years ago, they thought they could do that with genes. Everyone was doing gene testing and then they’ve gone through treating people based on their genes.

But now we’re realizing there’s such things as genetic expression. So you might have an expression…

Mark: That’s kind of like the AB blood… You know… That kind of diet. Are you an A blood diet, or a B blood diet?

Matt: Yeah, the blood type diet with the lectin theory. The lectins are all coming back into phase again now in regards to the gut, because I think they cause a lot of the gut problems.

But yeah, we had the blood type diet, we’ve had the genetic profiling. Now there’s a lot of testing doing microbiome profiling. And they’re trying to create personalized nutrition by studying the microbiome.

Mark: I did a podcast with the owner of a company called Viome, and they’re doing kind of a genome of the biome. And then they’re supposed to be able to try to personalize what you shouldn’t eat, what you should eat and what your gut is.

And I was a little suspect, because I had that similar reaction. I was like “well, my biomes… Every time I travel, or if I do something really, really hard – like 24 hours of burpees – I just like kill half the bugs in my gut. Cause they’re like stressed out.

Matt: Have you heard beetroot juice is good for sports?

Mark: I’ve heard of Beetlejuice.

Matt: (laughing) So beetroot juice, a lot of people add that to their supplements. If you use an antibacterial mouthwash after you have you beetroot juice, it does not work. So what’s crazy, is the nitrites from the beetroot sit in your saliva and somehow… I have no idea how… If your feet they’re lacking oxygen a signal goes to the bacteria in your mouth to release the nitrates so you can have nitric-oxide for vasodilation.

If you use an antibacterial mouthwash it wipes out the bacteria. It does not work. How crazy is that our bacteria work so closely with our body? You know 80% of the brain chemistry that regulates our mood, 80% of the signals between the gut and the brain is from the gut to the brain…

Mark: Yeah, I’ve heard a lot about that. If your gut is all fiery and pissed-off then you’re gonna be on fire.

Matt: Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of this is because the bugs want to survive. And this is how the microbiome can totally change your body composition, as well as your brain.

For example lactobacillus strains – which are the main ones in the probiotic supplements that you buy – they can increase the calorie yield from your food by about 20%. They can also contribute to insulin resistance and stop you from burning that fuel. And they believe they’re linked in with obesity.

But they’re really handy for babies that want to have a growth spurt. Which is why they’re supported by breast milk, and they’re found through the birth canal.

And so we’re supposed to have those for short phases of our life and then get rid of them. But if we keep having them, they can contribute to obesity – especially if our diet is too low in polyphenols. Because that’s what keeps them under control.

So you can see these big patterns that are forming through where we’re just making too many mistakes. And the education is all out of whack.

Mark: Yeah, we’ve taken it out of balance, and now we’re piece-mealing it back into balance. Which is often throwing it more out of balance. The whole system is like spinning in this really weird…

Jeff: That’s right. And then you’ve got certain special interests then taking that and sort of like “let’s just focus on this one area. And if we create the killer product for that… If you take this one thing, then you’ll be fine.”

It’s not as holistic, you know? With so many parts in the body. And as you said – we were just talking about the gut – then there’s obviously hormones there’s the mind.

The mind is so powerful in terms of the aspects that it can do with health as well too, you know?

Matt: And also sometimes important, when we mention the mind – because we always talk about mind power and you know mind control and using your mind to achieve great things. It’s very important for people that do that to every once in a while to stop using your mind. Recalibrate and let your body come back. And send some signals back up. Stop having your brain telling you can do everything all the time, because sometimes we can reinforce our defensive posture or something. If we’re not recalibrating our body and we’re only using our mind, that’s also an imbalance.

Mark: We can talk about this in our podcast, too. That’s still using your mind. But it may not be using your brain.

Jeff: Exactly. Oh yeah.



Mark: So is there like a secret weapon for the busy person who just wants to be healthier. And knows that their food is not seasonal, knows that their food is the best as they can get whole foods or lazy acres or those are our…

Jeff: Let me answer this, because this is a really good question. I appreciate that. I mean, and again so the caveat to that look absolutely, destress go away, with your family, get away from the city – do that sort of stuff. Eat fresh, eat local, eat organic wherever you possibly can. Have really good water – like we drink spring water at home as well – if you get mountain water that hasn’t got lots of chemicals added to it.

But, you’re right…

Mark: What do you think about alkalized water? Is that okay, or not? So I don’t want to take you off-track. Maybe you hold that thought and come back.

Jeff: Yeah. So in terms of… We appreciate that 98% of the population go “well, that’s all well and good, but I’m eating at a local cafe, I’m surrounded by radio frequency signals all the time.”

I asked matt, I said “Matt, can you create a killer supplement that you know we can take every day to protect us from the RF frequencies, from the pollution that’s in the air, from the pollution that’s in our water, eating you know food that maybe not 100% organic and has got glyphosate and chemicals in it, and all that sort of stuff.

Because it’s gonna happen. You can’t really – unless you’re a monk really and 100% committed to eating organic – nobody can eat like that, right? Even here, it’s going to be difficult.

And Matt actually got a piece of paper and started scribbling away and looking at all the different functions of the body. And he actually created a product that worked on the oils that are essential to life. That either worked on the oily structures of the brain – and you can expand on this matt – worked on a product that worked on gut health. Worked on a product that had all of the vitamins and minerals that you needed.

And also then worked on a product with all the antioxidants and the immune boosting compounds that we need.

Mark: These are all separate products?

Jeff: They are. And that’s the problem. I wanted it all as one, because I want just that one magic pill… It’s just not practical. And when you’ve got someone selling you one magic bullet, I don’t personally believe it.

Mark: You sell it as like a package?

Jeff: A stack. Yeah, we call a 4 pillars. But you can expand on them, Matt:

Matt: The vitamins and nutrients and nutrients, and the essential fatty acids… I mean, you need to make sure they’re there so you’re capable of health. So you need to make sure you don’t have nutrient deficiencies.

So that’s two of the four pillars is just covering the nutrients that we need. And then the rest of it was gut health.

But I’ll tell you one trick… A simplified version – if there was one target – if I had to pick one target in your body to protect us from those things you mentioned – stress and inflammation in modern life – there’s this particular gene called the NRF2 gene. And the NRF2 gene is our resilient gene. It increases a lot of our antioxidant defense mechanisms. It really helps our stress and anxiety. There are lots and lots of plants and foods that we can eat every day that will activate the NRF2 gene.

We made some supplements so you can get consistent supply, so we can activate that daily with the thing. But if anyone wants to go out there and just google NRF2 activator, you’ll see this massive list. All your brassica species do it.

A whole group other herbs. Your turmerics, and a lot of these herbs that are popular and famous at the moment… Green teas. All those things, they’re all NRF2 activators and through that mechanism they can actually build a really good first line of defense. And reduce the amount of stress you’re under by multiple mechanisms. And none of them are a sedative or a mood modifier.

Jeff: Straitjackets. Which we don’t believe in. We believe in working with the body. Not constraining it – like “I’m just going to do this.”

Matt: Yeah, so apart from the nutrient supply and managing the gut microbiome, if you can just load it up with NRF2 activators, you’re really good…

Mark: Are those inside this four pillar stack?

Matt: Yeah.

Mark: And what do you call that?

Jeff: We call it the four pillars, but you’ve got four products – one an oil which is an omega-3, 5, 6, 7 and 9. It’s all plant-based, so there’s no fish oil in there.

One, it’s sustainable, which is good – all from plants. And secondly, it doesn’t go rancid which is a big thing with fish oils, right?

Mark: I would much rather take plant-based oil than fish oil. I take fish oil right now, and it makes me kinda sick.

Jeff: Me too. And it’s got turmeric in there as well. Matt, what else is in the Orem oil?

Matt: The Orem oil is basically playing by plant-based oils that covers everything you need. But it’s important to get the precursors to the oils, because our body’s made up of all different types of oils. Not just one type.

And if you slide in one type…

Mark: Our body creates all sorts of different oils…

Matt: It does. It creates it. And you mentioned something interesting before about beer and wine. Sacher amahsis buladi is the yeast that’s associated with those properly fermented foods. Sacher amahsis buladi has the ability to actually convert… It lives in your gut… And has the ability to convert the olive oils, which is down the omega-6 into the omega-3s and everything as well so you don’t get the fish…

So but then things that made properly. It’s a big difference. So properly fermented where these things are live and viable. Maybe, they believe linked to the Mediterranean paradox how they can right have all those sort of – they can have obesity and not have heart disease from it.

Jeff: A mushroom, it’s got frankincense, and myrrh, and turmeric in there. And it’s an unbelievable product… Is built too for your immune system.

Mark: That’s sort of the second stack.

Jeff: Yeah, and then you’ve got the multi-food. And so the multi food is all plant-based. So no synthetics whatsoever. All plant-based with all of the cofactors, which is so important.

Matt: Multi-food’s so hard to make, because what we do… Nine months we have to plan for it. Work with the farmers to grow the stuff.

And then at the end of it, we then have to analyze everything and then find the vitamin levels to get the right combination of what to add to create a multivitamin out of food.

Jeff: This is without solvents, it just uses water extraction processes…

Matt: One year, we had a wet season just before we harvested, it rained and then it diluted all the nutrients in the plants. It’s fascinating, but that’s what the challenge of working with nature…

Mark: Must be expensive to make these products.

Matt: Oh yeah, it is. But the alternative is you make a synthetic one for less than a dollar….

Mark: The alternative is…

Matt: Hurt people.

Mark: What’s the point?

Jeff: And we still recommend obviously eat fresh, eat local…

Mark: Blow past the deductible on your insurance. That’s the alternative.

And then lastly the “GutRight,” which is our most popular product, because people get such a profound effect when they take it. The amount of imbalance in people’s gut is just ridiculous, and that’s because if people looked at the polyphenols as matt said.

The bitter foods, the thick rinds, the skins, the seeds everyone either spits them out or they’re not in their food anymore. We are so deficient in polyphenols and we’re calling this the mod-biotic. We’re calling it the evolutionary step from probiotics, because it’s designed to modify the gut, with completely natural polyphenols, which are missing out of our food.

And that is our number one selling product and works great. Yeah.

Matt: Crazy feedback from that. Like, of course you get the gut health feedback, but brain, skin…

Jeff: We had one guy who had full rosacea. We’ve got some photos been can send you if you want. And he was basically just in tears, because he had the severe redness – rosacea on his face – 72 hours. So he was in his 20s I think. He’d had it basically all his life. 72 hours after starting the challenge, which is three times a day using the “GutRight,” the rosacea completely subsided. Went away completely.

Like, it changed his life forever. So he was basically a shut-in, because he was so embarrassed about it. And, you know…

Mark: That’s cool.

Jeff: Yeah. And that is really cool.

Mark: Fuels up your passion for what you do.

Jeff: That’s the reason… I mean Zig Ziegler is my personal hero. And he’s got a statement Mark: I saw his speak once. He was awesome.

Jeff: Oh, he’s great. And he said “if you want to get where you want to get in life, help as many people to get where they want to go.”

And that’s our focus is its people before profit. It’s all about making a difference and giving people the tools that they need to be able to take control of their life.

And the education. A lot of the times when we’re talking about ingredients and herbs and certain states – we talk about everything from PCOs right through to performance – we tell people what they can do as far as food-based and other things. That’s not just about flogging supplements.

Mark: You think about the nootropics – like a Neurohacker Qualia or longevity Eternus…

Matt: It’s pretty interesting, because most nootropics it’s really good. Now I’m actually doing trials right now at Texas University on these brain health products. And actually looking doing military trials and PTSD, concussion, and that sort of stuff.

Mark: Oh cool. We should talk about our courage foundation. We have a foundation to help vets. That’s why we did all the burpees.

Jeff: I could probably get two or three out a day.

Matt: So with nootropic, I tell you I tell you a quick tip for anyone out there that wants a… That is looking at nootropics. Something to be aware of.

Our gut gets our nutrients first. Most nootropics are based on dopamine and acetylcholine release in the brain. And they use precursors such as choline and carnitine. Well choline and carnitine in certain people – with certain gut bugs – can convert to this thing called TMAO. Smells like fish.

So if anyone ever takes big doses of carnitine or takes a b vitamin, starts smelling fishy – and it’s relatively common – but the problem is TMAO causes heart disease, it causes atherosclerotic plugs. So sometimes we take a product based on carnitine and choline. If you’ve got the wrong microbiome, it’ll actually take it away from its nootropic aspects down to a pathway that can cause atherosclerotic plugs.

So some people will take a nootropic and think “it does nothing for me. I don’t feel anything.” they gotta be a little bit worried that maybe it’s going down the wrong path way and contributing to heart disease.

So otherwise, what we need to do is do other ways of modifying acetylcholine and dopamine. Those nutrients still work, but we just want to make sure that we’re not driving down the wrong path-way.

And this is where one man’s poison, can be another man’s medicine… Or, I think it’s the other way around, but you know what I mean.

Jeff: Yeah, well that’s true though. And so many people go “well my friend took this, and got great results. And then I take it, and I’m getting nothing. What’s wrong with me?”

Mark: Cause you’re a different human being.

Jeff: Absolutely. One size does not fit all. And it’s becoming more prevalent as well too, as we’re getting so many different things that are attacking basically who we are and taking us out of our status quo, you know what I mean? Out of the equilibrium that we should be in.

Matt: Yeah absolutely.

Mark: I need to try this. I have a few limited number of sponsors or partners I have for this podcast. One of them is neuro-hacker and Daniel Schmachtenberger would be a great guest on your podcast. Super-neat guy. Another brainiac who’s studied systemically the human body.

And so anyways he’s the developer of Eternus, which is his longevity thing. And then Qualia. I’d love to get your feedback on it.

Matt: Yeah, absolutely.

Mark: Yeah, I’d love to try your product. My point is, I don’t really promote things that I don’t try they know she’ll think invaluable and I like the idea of having all natural supplementation that can promote balanced gut and inflammation… That sounds really appealing.

So we gotta figure out how to do that.

Jeff: Yeah, we’ll get you some stuff. Absolutely.

Mark: I can fly down to Australia, and go to your pharmacology farm…

Matt: Yeah, do that too.

Well India’s where we have our farm for the nutrients. There’s a mountain range right at the north of India, they get two wet seasons a year.

Mark: The Himalaya’s

Jeff: No, I think it’s on the other side. But yeah, that’s a beautiful place and they get… It’s the whole mountain range is biodynamic. So they just keep expanding this organic region.

And because they get these two wet seasons a year, it means we can get two lots of production coming through every year.

In Australia we were actually working on a project in Australia where we have actually developed… There’s never been a proper way of testing all the different forms of folate. So we’re the first people in the world to develop a way of testing for methylated forms of folates within plant matter.

And now our next phase of the project is actually working with industry within Australia that has waste material like leftover skins, and peels, and seeds from juicing. And we’re taking nutrients out of those. So they’re plant-based nutrients that can be used for fortifying foods instead of synthetics. So we’re working on a big project there.

Mark: Awesome.

Well we got to wrap up here because you’ve got another podcast to get to. Which is gonna be probably your best podcast ever.

Mark: Thanks so much for your time today. Before we go, I want to ask you guys what your vision for the future is. Of humanity, of mother earth, of health… What does it look like for you guys?

Matt: Well, it involves a lot of love.

Mark: Optimistic? Neutral? Pessimistic?

Jeff: No we’re very hopeful. I mean, we’re working really hard towards creating… We used to say our company’s built as a group of mates having a crack a changing the world. And so like we are genuinely trying to work out how to improve farming. We’re working right from the grassroots with nutrition. Trying to fix farming, waste management.

But we’re also doing a lot of education about getting away from the angst, getting away from the ego, understanding more about soul, and moving towards love. And we’re even educating people of the benefits of oxytocin over androgens in the gym.

Mark: Benefits of oxytocin over OxyContin?

Jeff: (laughing) And the thing is as well too, is that a you can get pessimistic. I understand when people look at it you know big pharma and the industrial complexes that are out there in terms of food. And the amount of money and the corrupt systems which we see every day.

But Winston Churchill said during the Second World War for evil to win, good people must do nothing. And so you’ve got to fight the fight. And I do believe that there is a social consciousness happening.

I mean, I’m not a huge fan of Monsanto with things like glyphosate and other things like that. If you have a look… At the moment they’re getting beaten up big time in terms of a lot of the stuff that we’ve been saying about for years. That a lot of these products are dangerous. And now it’s starting to come out…

Mark: Yeah, if every individual or even 10% of the global population just started voting with their pocketbook.

Jeff: Yes.

Mark: And just saying “no” to all that crap. It’d make a huge difference.

Jeff: Yeah. So we’re optimistic and we’re in there fighting the fight and trying to spread the word.

Mark: Hooyah. Well, so are we and from a different perspective. So thank you. We’ll link arms and do it together. Along with a lot of other good people who are listening to this podcast.

Jeff: Absolutely.

Mark: Appreciate your time today.

Jeff: Thanks for having us.

Mark: And if I get down to Australia – we’re always been trying to get down there to do some Unbeatable Mind event.

Jeff: Yeah, absolutely.

Mark: We’ll link up.

Jeff: Yeah, well we’ve got a summit we were invite Richard Krier’s coming over from the US. We’ve got Kim Ware who works on neuro-physics, on chaos theory stuff. Amazing people. And we have a summit every year.

That’s in November. So maybe the next one we’ll have you down to come and talk about your passion. Which would be great.

Mark: Hooyah. Thanks guys.

Alright folks. Matt and Jeff from ATP – advanced technology for pharmacopeia.

Jeff: (laughing) Actually, that’s a much better one. I like that one better.

Mark: And I look forward to trying the products too.

Everybody till next time this is Unbeatable Mind. Gotta roll. Train hard, stay focused and eat close to the earth. Take care that gut. Check out ATP.


Divine out.

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