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Breakthrough for a Better World

By October 28, 2021 November 27th, 2021 No Comments

Today Mark is talking to David Nurse (@davidnursenba), former NBA player and mindset coach. David hosts his own podcast called the Pivot & Go! Podcast. He is also the author of Pivot & Go and his newest book Breakthrough: A Sure-Fire Guide to Realizing Your Potential, Pushing Through Limitations, and Achieving Things You Didn’t Know Were Possible.

David and Mark have a freewheeling philosophical discussion of the modern world, and how to achieve enlightenment and a better future. They discuss various topics such as finding what truly brings joy, how to gain unshakable confidence, and how to truly eliminate evil. Listen now so you can clarify and achieve your true purpose.

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Hey folks. This is Mark Divine with the Unbeatable Mind podcast. Welcome back.

Thanks so much for joining me today. Super stoked to have you here as per sop – I do not take it for granted. I know your time is valuable and there’s a million things vying for your attention, so the fact that you’re here listening to this is a huge honor.

So it’s with great humility I ask you to actually rate the podcast, because it helps other people like you find it, like-minded people who are trying to make the world better. Help us out by rating the podcast and referring it to your friends. So hooyah to that.

And also, just a quick note – you will be noting some changes – which I would like to think are upgrades to the show. We’ve hired a new producer, we’re moving to a new platform, we’re going to be changing the name of the show and all sorts of improvements…

And also changing up some of our guest selection going forward… those changes are slated to take place gradually, but then in full bore by mid-February or so when we relaunch kind of the Mark Divine website and etc.

So cool stuff happening there – but hey, that’s not why we’re here. We’re here today to talk to David Nurse. David thanks for joining me. David is a former NBA coach, he’s a performance optimization guy kind of in the same lane as the work that I’m doing.

He has played professional basketball and has helped over 100 NBA players really up their game, with his unique method of mindset and personal development. He’s the best-selling author of “Pivot and Go” which I think is also the name of his podcast or his brand. And he’s coming out with a new book called “Breakthrough.” December 2nd, right?

David: Yep.

Mark: Hey, thanks for joining me today. Super nice to meet you. I’m surprised it took us so long to meet in person, but I’m really stoked to get to know you today.

David: Mark, it’s an honor man. And yeah, I’ve actually nerded out on your stuff for a long time – being an optimization coach and just like seeing how you push the needle, and the envelope of like “how can you get that little extra bit?”

And after I was done playing professionally – which is more like – we could get into that – more like a Will Ferrell “semi-pro” overseas type of league – I got into seal fit. So I like to think of myself as like an OG in SEALFIT.

Mark: Right on.

David: So yeah, you’re my… those bands that you hear that nobody else really knows about yet, but about them and you’re super into them – and then when they get big and massive, you’re like, “that’s my guy, that’s my guy.”

Mark: You’re an OG seal fitter. I love it.

Hey, SEALFIT’s no joke, right?

David: Man, if people think CrossFit is difficult, try seal fit… that’s all I gotta say.

Mark: In fact, you might notice that I’m sweating a little bit. Guess what I just finished doing?

David: Just rocked it?

Mark: With my wife. So three, four times a week we come up to what used to be our office – which is now my man cave – although I can’t say that with my wife present – it’s our… I don’t know. Man/woman cave?

So I got my podcast studio… of course, a full kitchen… then I’ve got my hyperbaric chamber in there now and I’ve got my aikido studio and my all the old us CrossFit, seal fit equipment – well not all of it – maybe 20% survived after we gave away and people kind of borrowed the rest permanently. (laughing)

So here we are, right? Nobody uses this place anymore, because everyone’s working remotely… so I come here every day during the week and just get busy. Just slamming the weights, having a great old time – I’m in better shape now than I was 10 years ago. It’s amazing.

David: What? Like, I hope you never leave your place to go travel or anything… like that is my ultimate dream pad you have right there. So if you see some random stranger show up at your door one of these days…

Mark: Hey come on down. We’re not easy to find by the way. But if you can sleuth us out…

We used to have – you knew this from the old days – but we used to have that beautiful, beautiful training center down in Encinitas…

And we spent fifteen thousand dollars a month – which probably doesn’t sound like much money now, but it was a ton of money for us – but it was kind of like our marketing expense, because it was gorgeous.

And all the early videos we put out were in this facility that looked like a navy seal compound – we had this 5,000 square foot grinder in the middle, and we had pull-up bars ringing it and then we had the little CrossFit gym, we had the martial arts studio and the yoga studio – and we ran these 30-day academies – warrior/monk academies – that was for how it all got its start.

We would take spec ops trainees in for 30 days and we literally took one day off the entire month of training. So for 29 days we trained from zero dark dirty to zero dark hundred at night… sometimes around the clock. And that’s how all… that’s how Kokoro camp was developed, the SEALFIT operator WODS were developed, Unbeatable Mind was developed, Kokoro yoga was developed – all out of that petri dish, those early years… you should have joined us, man…

David: Yeah, at that time I was traveling all over the world, living out of cars, and doing basketball camps for anybody who would take me in. So I don’t know where I was doing your workouts, but I was somewhere…

Mark: That’s awesome.

David: I love how you live it, Mark. I love how you live it.

Like, you preach it – there’s a difference between preaching and actually doing and living it. You live it, and to come on here and be like “you know what? I’m in better shape than I was 10 years ago.”

Dude, you were in phenomenal shape 10 years ago. The guy I was watching in videos and everything…

You’re in better shape now, I don’t want to hang out with you.

Mark: Well, probably like you and some others, I’m proving that the mind is everything and so if you want your body to be fit like a 30 year-old at 58 then train like a 30 year-old and just believe it.

Literally, believe it. See it in your mind, believe it and then work it. And watch it happen.

I ran into – let’s see about two years ago – I was in New York for some speech or I don’t know what it was… maybe a book launch. And I went to CrossFit diablo.

Mainly because it was across the street from the hotel. It wasn’t like I planned it… but there it is, I couldn’t not go in, right? So I went and got a workout in.

And this guy came up to me – he recognized me – “hey Mark, I recognize you from seal fit.” And I learned his story and I wish I could remember his name right now – someone listening will know – but he was a CrossFitter – CrossFit games athlete – this guy when I saw him, I said, “maybe he’s 50.”

Not a wrinkle in his face, completely clear – strong, like really, really strong – like not any sense of aging in this body.

And the guy was in his mid-70s. Like, I think he was 79 and he was the oldest CrossFitter or something like that. And I just had such a great conversation, and it was really kind of like this – like, he trains every day. He lifts weights every day, does a CrossFit workout… every day he stretches – does his form of yoga…

But most importantly, he believes that he’s young. So that’s the piece – now you could train hard – like, look at the old guys… I don’t know people who were really at the vanguard of fitness. They still kind of got weak, all of a sudden, their mind said, “okay, it’s time.” It’s coded into your DNA people think.

But you can change that with belief. You know what I’m saying? And so had those people really believed that they could live to 120 or 150 with that kind of strength, they would have.

I don’t mean to steal the air here – I want to hear your thoughts on this – but we’re entering a really, really cool area of human history. Both rife with extreme danger and extreme opportunity.

And the biggest opportunity is the transformation of the human mindset into one of belief about potential. Truth about potential.

What are your thoughts on this?

David: Oh man, you couldn’t set it up any better. Like, first off, I want to say that you at 58… like, if I can be you at 58, sign me up… and I think it’s a “Mark” thing – Mark Sisson’s a really good friend of mine he’s mid-70s jacked out of his mind so maybe it’s just in the name…

But no, really honestly like I think “potential” is one of those words that gets thrown around that we just decide like okay potential is placed upon us by somebody else. Somebody else – especially in the NBA you hear it all the time – “this dude has potential to be such and such.”

And you start to believe that. It’s a ceiling, it’s a limitation – if you’re a businessperson, they’re like “well, your potential is a hundred thousand dollars a year.”

You’re like “okay, if only I can make a hundred thousand.”

But what if you change that up and said, “well no, why? Why isn’t my potential a million?” So I think potential is a bunch of bs and I love how you’re describing what I call obsession. The beauty of obsession it’s not a bad term.

Most people think, “oh, I don’t want to become obsessed. I got to be 80/20. I got to be…” balance, balance, balance.

Balance is bs. I don’t want to be 80/20 loving my wife. I don’t want to be 80/20 on the mission that God has put me on. So I think if you embrace this obsession word and realize your potential is literally what you decide it to be, right?

It is like we are the stories we tell ourselves. We have 50 000 self-talk thoughts per day – on average 80% of those are negative – so you’re already taking yourself out of the game.

So think about this, what if you were to have these positive self-talk thoughts? These thoughts of like, “okay, I can achieve this.” I mean, I attribute a lot of your success to this. I’m assuming.

You are one of those type of people that I would call a visionary. You see things before they happen, but everybody has an idea, there’s a very, very rare few who actually go and do. And I think that’s where potential is a limitation placed upon us by other people. And we live in that mindset of, “okay, if that’s what they say I’m gonna be, that’s all I can be.”

And I think we can burst through potential.

Mark: 100%. Now, what I love about what you’re saying, David, is this idea that anytime you outsource your future to anybody else – whether it’s the government or educational system or even your parents or even a mentor, right? Then stand by.

You learn – what I learned is to take all of that and sift it through your reality filter. And discern what’s important or valuable for you – but never give up your autonomy.

I think that one of the biggest challenges facing our world today is that we have this massive machine that’s trying to take autonomy away from individuals by limiting their belief and limiting their capacity to tap into their fullest potential. There’s so many examples of this throughout history and all the way to the present – and we don’t want to get into politics or anything like that – but even politics, I think, is simply one facet of this machine.

I don’t know who’s pulling the strings behind the curtain, I don’t know who the ultimate oz is, but there’s this definite energy that is working hard to prevent human beings from tapping their full potential.

I believe, and so we have to we have to take control of our lives and take control of our autonomy and push back against that. And we have to.

And this is why the work that you’re doing and I’m doing and others in the podcast field and the positive psychology field are so important the work is so important is because if we can we have the first time in history that we can scale optimism, positivity, belief and a positive vision of the world. A non-violent, positive vision to push back against this force that really is leading with violence and separation and not inclusion and love.

David: Mark, I couldn’t agree more. I mean, think about it if you step back and go 50 000 feet above you see what’s going on is media – social media, television, movies – everything is produced to control us, to make us become people who just listen and follow.

Mark: And become dependent in the sense of debt or the economic model literally human slaves, in a sense. I know it sounds really negative, but like I don’t know how else you would describe it. When you take trillions of dollars away from the producers and you put it in the hands of people, that actually prevents them from progressing in their life. That’s slavery.

David: Yeah, yeah. And I’m glad you hit on that point, because people want to shy away from that because it’s too uncomfortable to be in…

But we’re living through it. We’re seeing it completely right now what’s going to happen and what’s coming down the line is total control over our decisions. And we could go in depth on all that, but the people that are going to lead us through this, are the people that are able to be brave in standing up for “okay, I’m not going to listen to what everybody… this media is trying to tell me to be, trying to tell me who I am…

The coolest thing that I see in people is when they are authentically themselves, when they’re not just taking this input from media and social media.

I mean, think about this. We already know social media is created to give us little bit of endorphin rushes and then drive us nuts. I mean, there’s like documentaries on it with these guys actually saying “yeah, we’re actually trying to drive people nuts.”

But yet that’s where we put our time – on average Americans touch their phone 2 147 times a day. We’re letting this little thing – I’m holding up my phone – control us.

When people say it’s a zombie apocalypse, this is the zombie apocalypse. We’re looking at our phones all the time, we’re letting our phones control us.

Mark: And here’s a thought – as long as it’s still outside of our body we have a chance to take control. If you’re listening to this, in the future do not ever, ever, ever, ever, ever let anyone put the phone inside of you. Through neural ink or an implant.

Because that’s when you lose the choice of whether to disconnect. So that’s my warning for the future. Because to me that’s where the human race splits. And I’ve never said anything like that on a podcast, but I’ve been thinking about this the last couple days, watching what’s going on in the world.

Like, holy shit, there’s this massive movement toward the singularity and this technological integration of humans. The transhumanism… humans and ai working together.

I’m fine if humans are still humans and ai is ai and we’re working in some copacetic kind of partnership… but if we merge, that’s the end of humanity. You’re going to have a large swath of humanity that says, “no, I’m not doing that.”

And you’re going to have those who think, “oh yeah, it’s going to lead us to some utopia.” And the problem is – I really fear that merging technology with human will cut humans off from their heart. From what makes them human.

That is love. And technology doesn’t love, it’s just technology. So you can see that how that could be the doomsday scenario – split in the human race where the people who are disconnected are now the minority and then the hunted…

I mean, it’s a really dystopian view, I know…

I actually have a positive view of the future, because we can scale love for the first time in history…

David: Mark this is probably the most important topic that there is, literally…

Mark: I think so too. And nobody’s talking about it.

David: Exactly. And that’s why even like when you start laughing a little bit, when you say it’s a dystopian mindset…

Like it’s what’s coming. And if we don’t embrace this and understand if we don’t do anything – if we just continue to go on as these quote-unquote “robots,” it’s going to happen. They’re going to try to do it.

They’re going to sell you literally everything is trying to sell you on something that’s false to make a financial gain for whoever’s pulling the strings behind it.

And why are there movies like “I robot?” Because people just want to make a movie like “I robot?” No, everything they put out there has a purpose. They’re trying to desensitize us to be like, “oh, okay this is just in the movies.”

When it’s happening in reality. And the thing that nobody can take from you – which you hit on, which is our superhero power that every single person has – is choice. It’s literally – we wake up every single morning with the ability to choose who we are, what we stand for, what we stand up for…

And nobody gets to make that decision. But yet we are all too just soft and worried about going outside of our little lane, that then we just start to fall into this, “okay, I’ll listen to what they say.”

“Oh, they said this. Okay, cool. Yeah, I’ll just be a sheep and follow everything you say.”

Mark: That’s right. Well, because the ultimate scam that has been played upon humanity is selling the belief that we are separate from others. And that we are this body.

I mean, everything… all media, all consumerism is based upon this belief that we are simply this physical reality. And we’re going to find happiness by meeting our desires. Our wants and our needs.

Which means we avoid the discomfort of challenging things, which is how we grow. We avoid the discomfort of challenging conversation, which is how we connect as human beings. And we stay glued to the distracted and the dopamine hits of social media, and the negativity. Which then further perpetuates the separation and the violence.

That’s the biggest scam ever perpetuated on humanity. The reality is – we are connected, right? We are all one at the ephemeral level, at the spiritual level.

And our thoughts and actions affect everybody and everyone.

And so you’re right. So choice – the more and more down the rabbit hole in slavery you go with regard to technological addiction, the less and less capacity you have to choose. Because a choice gets taken away.

And the more choices, the more autonomy you give up, the less willpower you have to make that choice that you’re talking about – to disengage and to take your own path and go your own way. And to be your own autonomous, fully free human being.

This is the biggest challenge we face as humanity, is to take back our power.

This is like a dual interview here – like, I’m interviewing you and you’re interviewing me…

David: But this is much better than I even thought it could be, because I love talking to people that are extremely into understanding of what’s coming and high IQ.

So, this is more needed than me talking about “breakthrough.” I’m giving you a formula to find your own breakthroughs…

Like, the first part of the formula is understanding who you are. And you hit on this point of what is going to bring us joy. Like, happiness is bs. Joy is what we’re striving for. Contentment and joy.

And there has never been somebody in the history of ever – and Mark this down – that got joy, full true contentment if they’re being honest with you – out of a bank account. Out of having millions of followers. It’s never happened…

Mark: (laughing) never happened. There’s never enough…

David: Yeah, you always will want more. I know, you know millionaires, billionaires… and they just want more, and they just want more.

So, why are you listening to this and thinking like, “well, that’s not gonna be me. Like I’ll get this and then I’ll be happy. Then I’ll find my joy.”

It won’t happen. If you don’t have a bigger purpose that you’re living your life for. If you’re not on a mission – like for me, God is where I find that, and just in this glorifying god. Like, that’s the mission that I’m on. Through what I do and the gifts that he’s given me.

And I believe he’s given us all a gift. Like we all have this gift inside of us to be able to use, to better others around us in this world that we live in.

But we are our own worst nightmare, and we don’t want to go through this discomfort. We don’t want to go through this, “oh what if I fail if I try to embrace this gift? If I go all in? If I become obsessed with my passion and I fall flat on my face? What if that happens?”

And we stop dreaming. I don’t know what the numbers are, but like after you reach age eight like 95% of people will just crush their dreams, because somebody told them they’re not going to be able to do it.

And I think too just that the discomfort that we go through – and you hit on it – is the way that we grow. And I know people know that and they hear that, but every time that I’ve gone through a situation where like, “man, I’m kind of nervous,” or I’m getting up in front of 10 000 people to speak…

And every time afterwards I thought, “man, I’m so glad I did that. I’m so glad I went through that discomfort time. Because it led me to growth. It led me to developing more of my gift that god’s given me.”

Mark: Absolutely.

Who Instead of Why


Mark: People would say, “well, it’s one thing, David, to work with NBA players and help them break through, because they’re already operating at a pretty elite level.” And so what they just need to do is that 1% better every day mantra. Or maintain a little bit more optimal performance, so that when the peak performance time comes around, they’ve got a higher platform to jump off of.

Or whatever these strategies are. And those all work.

But if you’re sitting in your car listening to this podcast, driving to a job that you’re just like not finding fulfillment in, and you’re like, “I don’t know my purpose.”

And there’s a lot of people out there who say purpose is bullshit. Now I don’t believe them, but you know what I mean?

For every truth there’s going to be a counter-truth that’s posing as a truth. And so it’s confusing to people.

So how do you help someone who just doesn’t feel like they’re an NBA or a Navy Seal, right? And so they’re listening to an NBA coach and a Navy Seal talk, and they’re saying, “well, that’s all fine and good for you. But how does it apply to my life? Because I don’t feel very special right now.”

David: That’s such a good question. And I want you all to hear that. Everybody – no matter if you’re a Navy Seal, or an NBA all-star – is a person. Everybody struggles with the same type of struggles.

And if you’re sitting in your car and you’re going to work and you’re doing a job that you don’t like… that you don’t find fulfillment… you’re not excited about when you wake up in the morning?

I got two things to tell you – one) who are you doing it for? If you’re doing it for your family… if you’re doing it for your kids, for somebody else… you’re going to be able to go through that type of grind and be able to accept that grind. Because you’re doing it for a bigger purpose. That purpose will outweigh the actual actions that you’re doing.

Now, to fully become fulfilled and reach your essence of eminence, your greatness that you’ve been created to be, you have to have this work that you don’t like, become something that you do like. Something that you are passionate about. Becoming your purpose.

So it can happen. And it doesn’t happen quickly, and you don’t have to go all in and say, “well, I don’t like working construction. I really want to be a painter.”

Now, I’m not saying just quit construction and go try to paint. But slowly continue to work on it. There’s hours in the day that you can build in – that you’re not watching Netflix – that you can build on your craft. And you can develop these skills, if that is your passion.

But to your point on purpose – and I know it’s really popular to talk about start with your why – and I love that, it’s a great Simon Sinek talk…

But I would say start with your “who.” When you realize who you are at the core, and this is where you gain ultimate confidence, not in your results. Not in your NBA all-star… bank account or stats or anything like that.

But it’s your true self-awareness. Meaning that like who you’re created to be. In terms of you don’t worry about results, you don’t worry about title or identity. And it all starts with your “who.”

And I’ll give you a quick story to give you an example of why it’s so powerful.

One of my best friends is Jeremy Lin who went through this time in 2011-2012 called “Linsanity.” And what this was – for you guys that don’t remember – go look it up. It was amazing.

He came out of complete obscurity – literally was going to be cut from the New York knicks three days later – and he gets his opportunity. And he goes off.

Man, he’s going for 30 point games, game-winning shots – like, game after game after game. This dude is the number one trending thing in the world. Twitter, everything… news outlets. Like, for weeks.

That’s the proverbial top of the mountain. But instead of living in the appreciation for what he was doing, he was living in the “what ifs.” “What if I can’t keep this up? What will people think of me? What if I don’t keep this pace going?” And it drove him nuts.

So he did not live in his self-awareness. He was living in the “oh, I need to continue to do these results to gain my acceptance and my appreciation and we all do that…

Mark: Not sustainable.

David: The biggest breakthrough he had in his life is understanding that he stood for much more than just the game of basketball. It was a platform for more.

His true purpose – standing for his Taiwanese people, his relationship with Jesus and he thinks he’s a great gourmet chef in the kitchen… which, I don’t know, it’s debatable – but he finds a lot of his self in that instead of just basketball.

So point being, start with your who. Understand the core, your essence, the roots of who you are. And know what you are doing is for a bigger purpose than yourself. You’re going to come on this journey of your purpose… if it’s up there you’re going to find it.

And like you talked about earlier, too – it doesn’t happen overnight. Like, it just doesn’t… it’s not going to happen overnight.

It’s going to be a long process… and the good thing is too if you embrace this and understand this – that it’s processed with daily, relentless consistency – you’ll separate yourself from 99% of the population. Because everybody else is going to give up. They will. It’ll get tough, and they’ll give up.

Mark: Man, you’ve said a lot there. And a couple things that I want to ping on – the first is this definition of success, right? So you’re right – daily consistent discipline relentless discipline effort will lead you to success.

But it’s really important to define appropriately what that success is. And what it looks like. That’s the vision.

And if success is starting with the metrics and the money, then you’re going to be led to disappointment… because you’re seeking an objective or external kind of measure… how other people measure you.

And so what we really want to do is set up an internal measure of success which is – like you said – what kind of person you are. Becoming the person who’s worthy of that lagging metric of the bank account or the points on the board, right?

And then the second thing is about confidence. And I remember… people look at me and they say, “wow, you must have been super confident all along.” Because I was in my early 20s and I had my MBA, and I got my CPA, and I got my first degree black belt. And I was a competitive athlete.

And then I joined the Navy Seals, and I was number one in my class. Like, “you must been super confident.”

And the truth is I was not. I was not. I was able to train my body and my mind to stay focused on those objective goals, but those were easy. Those were things I could do. I was told what to do to get my MBA – “take this class, take that class, get an MBA.”

I was told what to do to get my CPA. I was told what to do to get my black belt. I was told what to do to get through seal training.

I just had to do it. It didn’t change who I was or how I felt about myself – it gave me more skills to be able to navigate the external world.

And so I still lacked confidence. All through my early years as an officer in the seals.

Now, I masked it very well. And it showed up sometimes as cockiness, actually. And sometimes as me just keeping my mouth shut and being like, “I don’t know what the hell I’m doing here. Those were the wiser moments, right?

But it really wasn’t until I made that shift that you’re talking about, where I stopped caring about the external measures and trying to present a perfect face to the world, and really looked within. That’s when my practice really clicked in.

Like, I had the… my early mental practices with Zen, and martial arts, and mindset training really were about performance. So I could achieve better.

And it wasn’t until I turned that around and focused inwardly, and said, “how do I be better instead of do better?” That I found the confidence.

What do you have to say about this? I know you talk about confidence in your books, and you already addressed a little bit about this, but maybe I stirred up some thinking in you.

David: Yeah, you stirred up a lot of thinking. And I love it, too. Like, you’re ultimately uber-successful from the outside… but still had that imposter syndrome, still had that lack of confidence in the mask you’re putting on.

Until you realized your self-awareness. Until you realized it doesn’t matter what anybody thinks. Like people think about you for about 10 seconds and then you spend the rest of your day thinking about what they said. Like, it’s just the truth.

And what does everybody want at the core? Everybody wants to step in a room and be so comfortable in their own skin that they make everybody else feel comfortable in their skin.

That’s what everybody wants, but yet hardly anybody does it. Because we put on these masks.

So I work a lot with NBA players and high performers in developing their confidence. And I have seven steps to unshakable confidence.

I mean, we could go really in depth on that – but just to give you the overview; there’s different steps you take to build your confidence menu, your blueprint… and like people don’t want to do, mindset skills are skills that you have to continue to work on.

So you read this, you create your own seven steps, and you do it daily. You want teeth that don’t rot and smell, you brush your teeth daily. It’s a practice.

But the seven steps – the first one is confidence through comparison. And most people will think, “okay that’s not right. Like comparison, ooh, that’s bad.”

But you see somebody who you can see yourself in, someone you want to be like. And realize, “you know what? They got there, why can’t I get there?”

Instead of looking at it like, “well, why me?” It’s why not me.

So I would compare myself to the best NBA shooting coach. And I would watch everything he did. Study everything he did. Chip Engelland for the San Antonio spurs. I even drove out to Las Vegas just for the opportunity to meet him.

Now, I wrote him letters, I emailed him… nothing. Just for the opportunity to meet him, because I knew “this dude is the best. I can be the best. I want to learn from him.”

And he saw all that work that I was putting in, and he took me under his wing, and he helped me along my journey to get started. But I would have never been able to get to that point of being a shooting coach for the Brooklyn nets and one of the top NBA shooting coaches, if I didn’t see myself in somebody else. And know they’ve taken those steps before me.

Like, there’s really nothing that anybody’s going to do that no one has done before. Yes, we’re all originals, we’re authentically ourselves – but we’re basically like a smoothie. We’re a smoothie of different people that we learn from, we surround ourselves…

That’s why it’s so important to surround yourself with people who are positive, people who are driving you forward…

And then we throw this smoothie in this blender with our own little sugar and spices on top. And that’s what we become.

So confidence through comparison – you hit on one – confidence through word redefinement. “success,” doesn’t mean what the world says. “failure” doesn’t mean what the world says.

Rich life? What is your rich life? Is it a lot of money or is it spending time with your family and the people that you love and pouring into them? You decide what your words mean.

Confidence through highlight reel. Like, we have these times in our lives that we think are just little sparks of luck. These little things that they just happen and they’re lucky. We don’t know how to recreate them.

And it’s the breakthrough formula that you recreate, but you can live in your highlight reel. So for NBA players – I have them every single day, when they wake up in the morning, before they step on the floor for practice – and if it’s a game day – before they step on the floor for the game, they’ll watch a two to three minute clip of their best moments they’ve had in the NBA.

And it just puts in your subconscious… it builds this myelin in your brain, this repetition, this muscle memory of, “oh man, I did this? I can do this again. Like, that’s who I am.”

Most people will see these great successes as, “well, gosh. I wish I was that person.” But you are. But you have to live in it.

Mark: Mm-hmm. Oh and by the way, you don’t need a video of a past event. You can create your own highlight reel with your imagination. That’s what I learned when I was… one of the things that helped me be effective at navy seal training was I already had that reel made in my mind of me just dominating training.

But there was no videos of me going through seal training, because that was in the future.

David: I would love to hear what your highlight reel is. And I can share mine afterwards. But I think this would be very valuable for people to hear.

Mark: Well, back then or now?

David: Either one. Both.

Mark: It’s interesting, because on this point any time that I was going through transitions in my life and my highlight reel wasn’t… I didn’t call it that. I called it my future me vision… wasn’t matching anymore. Then it tended to be a very confusing time. And also my performance and my success appeared to suffer.

But the reality was, it was old structures breaking down – including my internal structures and creating space for something new to arise, which then allowed me the space to create the new highlight reel, the new future vision.

And then as soon as I had that locked in and clear – “boom” – that became the new vision that I practiced every morning in my morning routine. And everything started to clear up again and accelerate toward that.

My first major experience with that process was the breakdown of the structures that led me to be in my first career as an MBA, CPA working at coopers and Lybrand.

And sitting on the meditation bench and being really challenged with the experience of meditation and what it was doing to me. And so that was breaking down the structure of my family and all the mental models that had led me to into that path. And it was opening up space for something new.

And so it took some time with a lot of blank space in my mind to come upon the notion of “I’m meant to be a warrior,” and then to decide that it was meant to be a navy seal.

So, in that period I was really working with imagery on what was wrong with the mental model and the image of what led me to where I was. And poking holes in it and deconstructing it to open space for a new image to be created.

Once I locked down the navy seals as my future path, then I was able to insert new imagery – to use my imagination to create new imagery – now it helps to have some stock footage so to speak – so the stock footage that I used back in the mid ‘80s was literally the navy recruiting video. Titled “be someone special.”

And so I watched it like 15 times and then I inserted myself into that video. And it had images of navy seal training, and BUD/S, and navy seals doing cool things.

And so there I was. I put myself in it in a future state. And that person was also different than who I was at the moment two years before. So I inserted myself as the person I needed to be to accomplish that and to succeed at a very high level.

And then what I did is I condensed that into a very, very short reel in my mind, that maybe lasted 60 seconds. And I brought that into my mind every single morning after my meditation practice. And my experience with this – and I’ve said it actually a number of times so listeners might be like, “yeah, I’ve heard the story before.” But that’s cool. It’s good to hear it again.

Is you have to have a lot of faith when you do this when you do imagery work like this, because it takes a little bit of time to take root into your subconscious or into whatever you want to call the holographic matrix. What happened with me is I practice this every day, all my entire being; physiology, emotion, my mind…

Everything was directed toward becoming a navy seal, even though I was working as a CPA. And so nine months of daily practice of this vision – the 60 second reel of me crushing BUD/S, with some imagery of that I picked up and some that I added to – all the way down to the moment I graduated.

Nine months into this practice, I had this overwhelming sense that it was done. Like that I had accomplished it. I went from certainty – knowing that I would be a navy seal.

And I hadn’t even gotten the call from the recruiter – in fact, they were basically warning me not to get my hopes up. Because as a civilian there were two slots out of hundreds and hundreds of applicants.

And so, a few days after that sense of certainty kind of washed over me, and it’s hard to describe. It was just a felt sense of like “yeah, this is happening” – my recruiter called and said, “not going to believe this, Mark, but congratulations. You got one of the two slots.”

Anyways, that was my first experience, and now it’s happened to me several times in my life. And when you get that kind of clarity to where you can condense your future into a 60-second image and play it, and it feels right. And then if you stick with it long enough, you’ll get to know that it’s going to happen.

And that’s where I’m at now, with this vision of scaling mindset, the positive mindset that is geared toward or is attuned with world-centric care and concern. Care and concern for all humanity, and mother earth.

So that all of our actions have a global, positive impact. Even if they’re just local. Or even if it’s just with one individual.

But every thought, every action ripple across the globe. And so if we can scale…

So my number right now is 100 million, but I think it could easily be a billion – because with all the other people involved in this. But we get 100 million and then a billion people to act with a global interconnected – through technology, yes, but we’re all humans – not like our earlier conversation, we’re not like connected to the internet.

But what I mean by globally interconnected, is we are scaling – imagine, a billion people with an image, a 60-second reel in their minds that is the same. And it’s a positive vision of humanity, with mother earth idyllic – like the garden of Eden – with nuclear weapons eradicated, with the dark forces that are trying to enslave humanity gone. And living in harmony.

It can happen. If we can scale positivity for the first time in history.

So I have that vision and I practice it every day. And I’ve gotten to the point where I feel… I’m right on the cusp, I should say of knowing it’s going to happen. I can feel the energy building toward that knowingness.

David: Mark, this is beautiful. This is probably my most fun conversation that I’ve ever had on the podcast. And like the book speaks for itself… go out and read the book if you want to read the book.

This is more powerful than any of that. So let me unpack this a little bit, because you hit on something I was going to ask, “what excites you? What you’re moving to next as a visionary? What needs to be created?”

Because yes, I see that same thing. I see the billion, why not? I mean, that’s only one-seventh of the population, we can do more. Getting a group of x-men – like, I love the movies x-men, because they’re the ones standing up and fighting against the world… of what the world’s trying to put them in this little box and control them.

And that’s what’s going on now. We need to get a group of x-men – not masterminds where people just hang out and talk about things – but actual…

Mark: This is the next step, Dave, is a platform… I love the idea of x-men, but x-women as well…

David: Totally.

X-people, x-humans.

David: Yes.

Mark: A platform of individuals or a platform – I should say – of communities committed to… they can be coming at it from different angles, and they can even use different words – but the ultimate aim must be the same. And the vision must be the same. Because you can’t have competing visions.

So we have to figure out how to come together and clarify the vision of what do we want humanity to look like? And what do we want humanity’s relationship with mother earth to look like? And with each other?

And keep it extremely simple. Like for me extremely simple is that kind of like the native American or the native approach… it’s like human beings are stewards of mother earth. And when mother earth is healthy, we’re healthy… when we’re healthy, mother earth is healthy… it’s a symbiotic, co-creative, relationship.

And furthermore human beings we can revel and enjoy our uniqueness, our differences – while recognizing the sameness. And honoring the sameness in all of us.

And that the final piece is that light and love is – whatever you want to call God – is the representation of all that is, right? And so that exists inside of us, all around us, we are that…

And so anything that is less than light and love, needs to be eradicated or moved away from. And you don’t do that by fighting it, you do that by bringing more light into the world.

David: Okay.

Mark: That’s a very simple kind of idea that could even be condensed a little bit more. Like we need a three-point or five-point manifesto that’s very simple. And then we all… like people who have millions of people who are training together, following each other – we all kind of come together and agree to those principles as a platform. And we scale that global mindset to push back against negativity.

David: Man, this is it. Like, this is the garden of Eden, this is the beautiful utopia… that it can happen, and I believe that it will happen. It’s gonna take a shit ton of work to do it.

But just think about this… like, when there’s anything that is created as a movement – and whether you believe or not in Jesus as a savior – that’s what he did. He had 12 guys, he had a small group, misfits, different strengths around him that he put together. And they went out and they made a movement.

Mark: It’s a movement that that is continuing to this day, largely hidden from view. And his core teachings were co-opted and corrupted by the church. And it’s done a lot of damage.

David: Totally.

Mark: Fascinating. Wow, we’re going to get to continue this on your podcast, right?

David: I think we just keep running it, man. I would love to keep… while we’re going through this, I’m like, “these are some questions I was going to ask you. Like potential and what’s next and this mindset…”

Dude, if you’re cool with it let’s just keep running like 10-15 minutes kind of wrap this thing up here.

Mark: Right.

David: And I’ll share it on my podcast. Dude, if you’re cool with that…

Mark: Right, I’m cool with that, and you can cut in your own intro and that…

David: Sure, yeah. Absolutely.

Mark: Okay, so we’ve officially shifted to co-podcast creation here.

David: Yes. This got so good guys, I’m gonna keep this in here this little part here. So when my team’s editing, I want to keep this in to just show like what can happen when you just get in a room with a visionary who is driven for purpose.

Mark, you didn’t once talk about “I want to grow my business. The Unbeatable Mind. I got this next book…” like, I know you’ve got so many best-selling books and you got like two books that you’re writing right now that are coming out.

But to come on this together with me and be so passionate about how you can actually make actual change, because I even think like “self-development,” “self-help,” “personal development” is a bunch of bs in itself. Because we cannot do it ourselves.

Mark: Right. Well, it’s kind of like the old idea of a yogi sitting in a cave – it’s kind of self-serving, actually. In the world today we need teams of teams – teams of tribes – I love that actually – teams of tribes that are all co-creating and co-developing.

So you can’t leave self-development behind, but self-development’s got to be in service to the whole. It’s got to be in service to the team, it’s got to mean service to the global commons in the global community.

Otherwise, you could have self-development that gets co-opted for ego – ego will always try to co-opt whatever increasing powers you develop as a human. And so as part of our self-development – when you develop mindset and mental power – concentration power, and the ability to really influence a lot of people. And if you haven’t simultaneously tamed your ego and allowed your higher self, your witnessing self, your spiritual self to be in charge instead of your ego self, then you might actually do more harm ultimately with that increasing power than good, right?

And you see that all the time and then that plays out with like there’s some incredibly mentally powerful individuals who create huge businesses and create huge success in the world, but they’re miserable. Or they’re missing components…

Look at Facebook as an example. No question that Zuckerberg is an extremely intelligent, very focused, very knowledgeable in a lot of ways he’s developed his mind like a yogi. And his business has done that.

But wow, they never asked all along the way is, “is this going to lead to good in the world? And how are these decisions gonna affect the psyche of people – is it gonna be good? Or is it gonna be bad?

And now they now we know that they actually knew that it was damaging and that they hid it… this is an example I’m talking about. Facebook should be deleted and maybe they get another do-over, because hopefully they’ve learned their lesson…

But as far as I’m concerned, they’re done delete Facebook.

David: Yeah, hashtag “delete Facebook” on this podcast. Man, I couldn’t agree to that more. The purpose of self-development is yes pouring into yourself, but so you can pour into others.

That’s the whole purpose of what the x-men setup is. Like, you’re all pouring into yourself, people coming in to pour into themselves – then to go out in your own communities and your own little networks – and being able to pour into those people. That’s the only way change is going to be made.

And we see it even in the space that we’re in. Like, we know the people that are trying to get like this huge platform to reach people for good. To reach people for purpose.

And we also know the people who are trying to reach it for the “look at these” and the likes and the financial gains…

And that’s where it throws it to… like, the ego comes into play and it ruins people,

It’s almost like – here, let me give you this example – like the biggest thing that drives me nuts is when people these professional athletes or high celebrities say, “I’m a follower of Jesus. Thank you, thank you.”

And then they go out and live the complete opposite. And you’re like, “oh you know what? That just did a lot worse than it actually did good. Because now people are gonna believe that that’s what it looks like following Jesus, living for yourself.

And it’s the same thing in this Facebook world, this self-development world – taking all this knowledge so that we can look good, when in essence none of this stuff that we’ve been given is of our doing. It’s god’s gifts that we’ve been able to use through us.

So yes, it’s coming to us, but it’s what he can do through us, and I think that’s where the big hold up and the big just disconnect happens.

Mark: I agree.



Mark: And again it all comes down to misidentifying with this body, and this limited human existence as the main thing, as the only thing…

David: Yeah, yeah…

Mark: Because then we’re automatically starting from the position of lack, scarcity, separation which then plays right into the story that I’ve got to claw out my existence at the expense of someone else.

And so if we get rid of that story – and anyone who does the work of turning inward, gets rid of that story eventually – because when you turn in, when you recognize…

One of my favorite kind of philosophical and meditative practices around that comes from Ramana Maharshi and that’s “who am I?” Asking yourself “who am I? Am I this body? Am I this collection of accomplishments?”

And you ask those questions from a deep state of awareness, and the answer is “no, I’m not the collections of accomplishments. And I’m not this body even.”

Ultimately when I did this Tibetan practice, they have a really cool way to kind of entering into their meditation practices – which is to do that high speed awareness search not thinking.

So this is also a cool thought, is that when you are aware – awareness itself is in real time, right? It’s in the present moment.

And thinking is like ridiculously slow compared to the speed of awareness. So with awareness you can search your body for this thing called “Mark.”

And you’ll recognize that “Mark” is not in the body. “Mark” is something different than the body. And so then you recognize that the body is not Mark and Mark is not his CPA, or his MBA… or his navy seal BUD/S graduate, or the trident he pins on his chest.

Or an organization that called him a navy seal, or even a culture that put him on a pedestal as a superhero – as a navy seal…

None of that can be actually found inside. And then you start to look at the beliefs and the mental models that your parents kind of fed to you – unwittingly, I might add and sometimes wittingly – and you look at those and you’re like, “am I those belief structures and those mental models?”

And nowhere in your field of awareness can you find those mental models. It’s not like there’s a scaffolding inside your brain that says, “this is actual, real structure.” It’s all just fantasy.

And so ultimately, you’re left with a sensation that I am awareness itself. And then you start asking, “well what is awareness?” And now you’re getting to the essential nature of what it means to be human, because then awareness…

Awareness starts to reveal itself to itself through this process as love, as different faces or aspects of what we call love. So for people who get squeamish with that word – insert “joy,” insert “happiness,” insert “appreciation,” insert “forgiveness,” insert “stillness”…

Sanskrit has 67 words for love and it’s probably because they just ran out of words for it. They would probably say there’s infinite expressions or variations – so, it’s not accurate to conflate love to romantic love…

That’s just ridiculous, that’s actually a pretty low level of vibrational love. It’s not unimportant, but it’s there…

So when you do this meditation – first start out – it’s a philosophical question “who am I?” And I love how you said earlier that it starts with “who,” not “why.” Because I agree that the who then defines the why.

Because first you know who you are and then that ephemeral nature, when you get connected to that, you recognize that that energy is both timeless and eternal. But also has an energetic projection or reason projecting itself into this human experience, in this linear, excruciatingly slow, and challenging human existence.

And so you can then tap into the energy of that, and that’s what I call an archetypal energy.- so my archetypal energy – and I love the term arc, because there’s arcs to it – my archetypal energy for a long time was to be a warrior. And then that shifted where the warrior then took a back seat to the teacher.

And then shifting to where the teacher will take a back seat to being whatever… the wise elder, or the sage, or something like that, right?

So we have these archetypal energies, and they all are tied to service, right? Like you said and so you’re very wise in that.

It’s all tied to service, so you’re not going to connect to your awareness, and it’s not going to reveal to you that you were meant to be a billionaire. It’s not.

Now, if through your service you accrue a billion dollars that you can do more good with, fine… that’s perfect… no big deal. It’s not discriminating about resources; awareness knows that that’s just a construct of the human temporal realm to help find meaning or help make meaning…

Money is a human created idea, you know?

David: Yeah, okay. I want to listen back to this like every single day, because you literally just broke down the essence of why we are walking on this earth today. The “who am I?” Like asking yourself the question the “who am I?”…

Think about this, if you can do this every single day when you wake up, ask yourself “who am I?” Your self-awareness – “who was I made to be?”

Okay, now what choices am I going to make? My superhero power – what choices am I going to make? Am I going to let the past – my parents made me this way, I was born here, I have to be…

Am I going to let that define my future? Or am I going to accept the past – and this is where successful people come from is the way they say “the past is not who I am. The past taught me to be who I am today. What is my choice going forward, because we can’t change it.”

And then the “who with.” The “who am I doing this journey with.” You’re the yogi in the cave by yourself, self-serving…

And I think this all equals love. And that term like you said like it’s so “out there,” but I think you did a great job of tying it together with the archetypal energy. That’s one of the coolest sayings I’ve ever heard. But I think that is where like all of this encompassing that we’ve been talking about today all comes down to genuine unconditional love for other people. Love for yourself and love for other people.

I know when people listen to this, they’re like, “oh that sounds so basic.”

Oh man, it is not basic. That is the deepest thing you can actually get into. Fully live in love.

Mark: One of my sources of inspiration among many is the yoga sutras – so I’m heavily influenced by this ancient, mental science of yoga – not the stretchy, bendy, lululemony – but the ancient science of yoga. Which is the source of all martial arts, all yoga, and most of eastern meditation practices come from the Vedic writings of the sages thousands and thousands of years ago.

And then Patanjali was really the first one to codify it in written form. In these things called sutras which are pearls of wisdom basically. Short little aphorisms or sayings.

But then they’ve been opined upon by yoga masters over the years and whatnot.

So anyways, one of them – it’s just so simple and it speaks to what we were talking about – this idea of like how can you love someone who’s evil? Or who is mean to you or has abused you? Or something like that. That’s really challenging.

It’s yoga sutra 1.33, and I read this every morning as part of my morning ritual. And this is my interpretation by the way, because I’ve modified this…

So be happy for the contented, be compassionate toward the unfortunate, appreciate those who are doing good, and forgive all the rest.

Because here’s the thing, David, as you know… there are people who are born into this world and also evolved to like extremely high levels. And it’s easy to put them on a pedestal. And it’s easy to be like, “oh my god, look at Mother Teresa. She’s doing so much good in the world.” And that’s great, you should appreciate people like that.

And then there’s people who their karma is to be evil, right? Like either for whatever they’ve done in the past life or whatever trips them up – they’re evil. They do bad things.

And if we confront them with evil, then we become like them. If you fight fear with fear, you leave a carbon copy on yourself. If you fight anger with anger, you leave a carbon copy on yourself.

This plays out with whether you’re talking about an individual or a family – look at the Hatfield’s and McCoy’s – football teams, or nation states. The only way to fight evil is with love. And I’m not saying you go out and embrace the murderer… I’m not talking about that.

I’m saying you don’t fight like with like, you just bring more light into the world. Because darkness can’t exist in the presence of light.

David: Oh, evil with evil. Just breaking that down, like that is how the majority of us… if something bad happens to us, we want to take it out on them…

Mark: Eye for an eye. That’s why the Old Testament has some corrupted knowledge in it. Like, eye for an eye does not work.

David: No, no. I totally agree. And I think that’s a disconnect, too. Like, Jesus came down to just negate that. We don’t have to do sacrifices; we don’t have to do this Old Testament brutality.

But what he does, I mean, exactly is that. Like the evil, you fight it with love. And there’s real evil in this world, so if people out there listening want to think like, “well, no, there’s not really…”

Oh yeah, there is. We’re seeing it go on right now.

But I mean it is one of the hardest things to do, Mark. Like I will just say that… as human nature we want to get back… we want to have revenge, we don’t want to forgive.

But you know one of the most freeing things that I’ve ever done is when people… I’ve been burnt so many times in my business, with friends… just been burnt.

And I hold onto it. I’ll hold onto it, and then I’m like “this is just driving me nuts.” So in the end these people that burnt me are double winning, because it’s also driving me nuts…

Mark: That’s right.

David: And one of the biggest things that I’ve been able to do now is like, yes, it sucks. It hurts. But I forgive them. I don’t forget. I’m not going to go back and be like “forgive and forget.”

Mark: Doesn’t mean you have to go be buds with them again, right?

David: Yes, but you forgive it, and it frees up yourself.

Mark: Everything starts with your mind, right? So my experience of you is in my mind, right now. So my experience of a narcissist who really damaged me is in my mind.

So, if I – just to piggyback on what you were saying – so if I continue to hold resentment against an individual who harmed me, then that resentment is in my mind. And I own it. I can’t get rid of it, because I’m holding on to it.

And so that resentment, that negative energy is slowly debilitating me. Over time, you have enough resentments build up that you hang on to, then you’re crippling yourself. And that shows up in anxiety, and depression, and disease…

And you say, “well, they did it to me.” And you’re like “no.”

But then you’re doing it to yourself. And oh by the way you likely attracted that energy anyways with your underlying energetic field. Like, we projected that energy. We attracted it.

Then we get hurt, and then we blame. And we hold on to the resentment, which does more damage. And then we attract it again because we’re holding on to that energy.

And this becomes a vicious cycle, and people can get trapped an entire life, and they wonder why they’re not happy. And why they’re unhealthy. And why…

Because they have not learned to release all of that negativity. And let go.

When you let go, then… it’s not like you have to go out and find the more positive energy, the light and love. It just starts naturally flowing, because it wants to be in you. It’s your natural state.

David: Yeah.

Mark: And so this is one of the most profound things, is you want to be more positive, stop being negative. Don’t try to be positive… stop being negative, right?

And I know all sorts of happy glad people who are trying to be positive… and it’s just like they put another coat of paint on their body with a smile on it, and you feel their negativity underneath it. Or behind it.

David: Man, yes. So good. This is so good. Like, I’m not going and spraying different cologne on me every single day. Like, I’ll wash it off in the shower, because I’m not putting that other coat on.

And man this comes back to the point that I was talking about with we are the smoothies. The smoothies are the different ingredients of people around us, but like if I’m throwing rotten bananas, if I’m throwing stinky sardines into my smoothie, shit ain’t tasting good.

All I know Mark, is we have got to start this x-men group… and I’m not even kidding, I know friends of mine, like Rich Diviney, John Gordon just to name a few yeah would be super-into this.

Mark: Let’s brainstorm on where to go and anybody who’s listening wants to be part of the x-men and has platformic ideas – like how do we platform this with a digital unicorn platform where we can speak to everybody across the globe in real time?

This is what I’m working on doing with my company, but it’s challenging, because I’m working still with kind of old structures, and I think we need to get out five years ahead and build for the future.

David: Yeah.

Mark: So there’s a new form that this will take. And like I said – we gotta lead with what’s right for humanity, and let the chips fall in terms of like old school thinking about “well is it LLC? Or is it a non-profit…?” All those organizational structures are corrupted by the government anyways and we’ve gotten to the point – this is a little bit of a tangent – kind of back to how we started an hour ago or an hour and a half ago – is like I can’t stand that every decision I make includes taxes.

Like, I want to go invest in something, but I have to sell some assets… “Oh God, now I got to pay taxes.” And so all those structures like non-profit – I have a non-profit – it’s very unwieldy to do good works through a non-profit.

So I’m advising people just create a regular company and just do good works for that company. Because it’s not it’s not worth all the regulatory bullshit in this day and age to have a non-profit. Or start a church, I don’t care.

But they make it so hard. The whole structure of our government is so broken and so built for… I don’t even know, it’s so unfair, right?

David: I get it.

Mark: It’s got to be new structures that that grow in the weeds around it. Here’s a crazy thought – and I’ll probably get this thing pulled from YouTube for saying this – is like when we have a billion people platform, the way to change government is to all agree to stop paying taxes. You want to scare the shit out of the federal governments. Stop paying taxes.

Of course the gold and gun rule will come after us really quick. So, we just do it for a day…

David: Yeah, but they can’t come after everybody. If everybody stood together for creating real structures instead of just complaining about them, like everybody does. Like if everybody actually stood for the brokenness that’s going on, there will be change made.

But people are too afraid… because there’s going to be some martyrs…

Mark: Because they feel alone. Because they’ve been taught that they’re separate and they’re standing alone. That’s why everyone is afraid to step up and stand out – or stand up and step out. Works both ways.

But you’re right – if we have the x-men and a global platform, and we can speak with a single voice while we also speak with our own voices. And there’s honor and integrity and we lead with light and love. Man, that’s a force to be reckoned with.

David: Yeah, and that’s creating your own platform, because right now we operate on other people’s platforms… we’re renting space.

Like when Instagram and social media went down for that day for hours, everybody’s like “oh my gosh, my life’s work is over.”

They can do that anytime. Like, we’re operating on this rented space. We have to create our own platform away from what is the government. From ultimately taxes and this just maniacal control they have on us.

And it’s something that… people can’t grasp, because they’ve never seen it done before but actually that’s where beautiful utopia actually lives.

Mark: You’re right. In the past it was just individual voices, right? John Lennon, Martin Luther King, Gandhi… what happened to them all?

They got killed by the system, because they were speaking the truth, they were hitting the Mark dead center, right? But if you had – like you said – a billion people hitting center mass with the message – what are they going to do kill a billion people? I mean, they might try with the next pandemic… (laughing)

But anyways, we’re getting a little bit conspiratorial – you and I can have this discussion offline…

David: Mark, this has been a ton of fun man. I’m coming down there to Encinitas and we’re going to continue this. Such a blessing being able to be on here, and just talk about real life, actual meaning, deep stuff. It’s so cool, because…

Mark: It is. I feel like we were talking over beer. I hope people found a lot of value in this conversation or inspired or maybe scared or maybe want to be part of the x-men. It’ll land where it lands.

So thank you for your time.

David: Thank you, thank you.

Mark: I look forward to following up.


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